i have been looking through old posts on the board referencing tube fenders. i am overseas, but when i get back home, i am going to do a few to things to the rubi (yeah, it is about time)...and tube fenders, will be the only purchase other than tires that i will be making(everything else i plan to try and fab myself) my question is can anyone give me a list of every company that our cumulative knowledge base is aware of that makes a tube fender. i dont want to cut my hood, so highlines are out... just all the companies that make regular old straight forward tube fenders for a tj. i just want to look at all of them and get the style i like with the price i can afford. i am sure i will post several other questions in the comming months, probably more about fabrication than anything else. i have about a 2000 dollar budget, so i am going to buy tires, fenders, a welder, a tube bender, a drill press, and this little tube notcher gizmo that harbor freight sells that is just a jig that goes on the drill press. and before all of you flood me with warnings, i do have a little welding knowledge, and i am going to do my best not to do a hack job with my plans for bumpers, and rocker steps. measure, measure, and remeasure....its already like a satanic chant in my head when i sleep...any help is appreciated.
need guidance for tube fenders
carolinajeeper
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I am really happy with the PSC fenders...
![Image]()
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That all depends on how much fabrication you are going to do. You are right, you shouldn't spend a couple grand on tools to fabricate one project. But those of us that have talked about buying equipment expect long term use from it. And we use our equipment regularly. For example I've burned 50 pounds of MIG welder wire since January. So if you don't plan to use your metal equipment the rest of your life, then you should buy your products from a company already assembled. What you will pay a company to weld you up a bumper would buy you a new cutting torch. If you buy two bumpers from someone, you could have purchased a decent MIG welder. If you throw in Rocker Guards with the two bumpers you could have purchased the torch and welder. Not picking on manufactured products, just making a point.carolinajeeper said:
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so are you saying if only plan on using this stuff say a handful of times in the course of a year, but just want to be able to make my own stuff then the less expensive tools would be ok? i also dont have a problem with tacking everything in to place and then having a pro run the beads for me. i mentioned this before in my original post. i just really want my own design. i am fairly confident that if i take my time and make sure my measurements are right that i can build whatever i want...cheap tools or not. if i understand you correctly the main difference in the tools you are talking about, and the stuff i am looking at, is durability and speed. if thats the case i can appreciate that, but i am not sure i want to go head over heals into this without having even starting it yet. my first jeep wasnt a rubi it was a 79' cj beater, and i am not entirely sure my start in fabrication should be quite so involved. i am only a Staff Sergeant in the Air Force, and i cant afford to buy that caliber of equipment. just the other day i found a post from a guy who built rear tube fenders with nothing but a welder and a cut off saw. everyone applauded him for his ingenuity, and now i feel very discouraged from even trying to get started in this. if i do decide to go through with my plan it will be the way i originally planned it. if i take to it, and i want to get more involved, then i will upgrade equipment later as i can afford to. at least this way i can do something while i wait to upgrade. it just doesnt make any sense to me to dump thousands of dollars into expensive equipment when i am just trying this out for the first time on my own. sorry to get spun up like this, i just really feel like the wind has been taken out of my sails, and now i am second guessing the whole project, when i am not sure if i really have a reason to...ovrszd said:
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As a fellow NCO, don't let anything anyone on a website says deter you from your own goals. If you are second guessing, it's from your own doubts. Buy whatever you want. Build whatever you want. No one on here really, truly cares or will lose any sleep over it. Act like an NCO. Do your own thing. Then report it on here proudly. That's what will get you respect. No piece of equipment in my shop or modification on my Jeep is bought or done to please anyone on here. :roll:
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ok well it seems we gotta little side tracked from the point. Anyway, all i was wondering was, is there a reason why these inexpensive tools wont work under limited use. if its a for sure deal that these items are absolutly, 100% useless for what i plan to do with them, then i would like to know. i appreciate all the input, just trying to learn exactly why the harbor freight items are no good. Also someone said they built there own tube bender, could you post some pics, and description of this. i could see bolstering the budget a little to get a better product, but i just cant drop 700 bucks on one tool.
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You don't need a full on tube bender to build something.
Check halfway down the page for pics of a die set up in a harbor freight press. He bent every bit of tube for his rig. Oh and start from the beginning to see one hell of a build. He merged a toyota and an XJ
http://www.rockfrogs.org/phpBB2/viewtop ... &start=105
Check halfway down the page for pics of a die set up in a harbor freight press. He bent every bit of tube for his rig. Oh and start from the beginning to see one hell of a build. He merged a toyota and an XJ
http://www.rockfrogs.org/phpBB2/viewtop ... &start=105
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see, adaptation...thats what i mean...but, the picture of the press is fuzzy, i cant really tell how the press is moving the tubing along the die. do you have any insight on what he was doing here, don...
overszd.. i have taken some of your advice, and reevaluated my purchases...unfortunately, i cant change my budget right now, but i think i am going to just buy a welder for the time being, as opposed to all of the tools. probably a lincoln, a little bit better than the harbor freight one i was originally looking at. my current needs dont require a tube bender, yet. later when there is more money i will buy the bender, and add the tubing to my projects then. i dont want to go into too much detail, cuz i kinda want the finished product to be a surprise :jawdrop: its nothing to daring, just havent seen anything like the idea in my head out on the market yet.
overszd.. i have taken some of your advice, and reevaluated my purchases...unfortunately, i cant change my budget right now, but i think i am going to just buy a welder for the time being, as opposed to all of the tools. probably a lincoln, a little bit better than the harbor freight one i was originally looking at. my current needs dont require a tube bender, yet. later when there is more money i will buy the bender, and add the tubing to my projects then. i dont want to go into too much detail, cuz i kinda want the finished product to be a surprise :jawdrop: its nothing to daring, just havent seen anything like the idea in my head out on the market yet.
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Its based on this concept
![Image]()
You can build your own and they'll even send you plans for free
http://www.pro-tools.com/200k-1.htm
More
http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/tube- ... ender.html
http://www.lowbucktools.com/hydbender.html
You can build your own and they'll even send you plans for free
http://www.pro-tools.com/200k-1.htm
More
http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/tube- ... ender.html
http://www.lowbucktools.com/hydbender.html
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Carolina-
I really hope I didn't "take the wind out of your sails" with my original post-that was DEFINITELY not my point. I'm on a very tight budget myself, and can't afford the tools I'd like to have to get the job done that would make things much easier. I don't have plasma-or even a gas cutting torch! I use a sawzall, chop saw, 4 1/2" angle grinder with cut-off discs for cutting ALL of my work. Depending on what material you're using, this can be expensive in itself just buying all the blades and cut-off discs as they really don't last that long for thicker material-like 3/16" or 1/4". You'll burn up several cut-off discs and flapper discs (sanding discs) in the course of one project. Consumables are part of every project and are HIGHLY overlooked or forgotten about. Overszd made a comment about expecting to spend another 50% more on a project than you originally intended to do-I think that's a great thing to think about as EVERY project I've ever done ended up costing more than I originally intended it to cost-simply because I somehow forgot about buying extra discs or blades, spray paint, more material than I needed, etc. Granted-I STILL built it cheaper than I could have bought it, but even though I did do it cheap, it still wound up costing more than intended.
My points about the harbor freight welder-I don't have one myself, but know a few people who have purchased a couple different models they carry. One of the guys didn't know how to weld, bought the HF model and tried to learn-even took a class at the local college. After purchasing the HF welder, he got so frustrated with welding that he gave up entirely-the machine is sitting under his work bench covered in dust and other crap as he hasn't touched it since. I know two other guys who basically went through the same thing, but wound up getting pissed off and buying a very expensive Miller welder that was way more machine than he is capable of using for occassional weekend work. Money spent twice is ALWAYS going to cost more than one quality machine from the start. Money spent twice out of anger due to a poor decision in the first place-well, that's just asking for trouble-especially with the wife!!! :laugh: Last guy ended up selling his for basically a case of beer and ended up buying a nice Lincoln later.
I did a LOT of research before purchasing my welder, as like you-I am also on a budget. I took a few welding classes years ago in college and used Lincoln welders there. We have a ton of Lincolns in all of the shops at work in the various plants, so I was familiar with them. Nearly everybody I talked to said I HAD to have a 220v welder as 110v would do nothing and would be a waste of money. I couldn't afford a good 220v machine, or the cost of having an electrician wire in a dedicated 220v breaker to run it. After a TON of research, I settled on a Lincoln SP135 Plus Industrial model that I got from Harris for right around $600-it was on special with the cart at the time. Came with .025, .030, .035 tips, gun, liner, spool of wire-basically everything I needed EXCEPT the gas and a good welding helmet. Even had the regulators. The unit itself LOOKS identical to those found at Home Depot or Lowes, Oxarc, your welding shops, etc., but the internals are better and it weighs about 12 pounds more if I remember right than those other models-due to the internals. It has a greater wire speed range and amp setting adjustment, with smooth dial knobs on each so you can really "fine tune" everything. I put in a dedicated 30 or 35 amp breaker (forget now-whatever the manual called for) about 1' below my breaker box in the garage. I have done a LOT of welding with this machine (110v unit) and have NEVER overheated it, or blown the breaker. A lot of guys will argue it isn't enough machine, but for me, it works great and has done everything I've wanted to do-even 1/2" plate -with multiple pass of course. Everything I've built has held up to the useage I put it through-and for some cattle equipment I've built, that's saying a lot.
My point against the Harbor Freight unit was you'd really be kicking yourself getting a lesser machine that will really limit your abilities due to it's inadequacy, and could slow your progress and skills advancement. As you're on a tight budget, skip the bender for now-you won't use it every day and it won't be worth the cost to build one or two projects then sit on the floor the rest of the year. Spend a couple hundred dollars extra and get a GOOD welder that will run when you want it too as well as when you NEED it to. Having a good welder alone will be one of your most used tools in your shop-despite being on a tight budget. With that tool, and something like a DeWalt 4 1/2" angle grinder for around $90, you can cut and weld about anything you'd want for your Jeep. It wasn't till here recently that I got my DeWalt sawzall-again around $100, which has been a huge asset as well. I was given a chop saw, but it's not that great of a model and wanders a bit so the cuts aren't true.
Oh-regarding that harbor freight tube notcher-I DO have one of those and will say don't waste your money on that either. You can expect maybe up to 100 cuts out of it at best, and that's being generous. I wore it out LONG before the actual drill bit wore out. It's currently rigged up with extra spacers, washers, other bolts I put in, T handle I put together and still doesn't work very well. Overall it was a POS and a waste of money-don't buy that one, you can do much better.
As to the bender if you're really interested-I posted the link to Pro-Tools in my earlier post, and Don_TLR showed a link to their "how to" model above. I ordered the plans to build that bender, and still have them sitting on the desk. Unless you have SERIOUS fab and machine skills, that particular bender is not possible for most of the average folks to build-I believe that's why the plans are free. There are several parts that are to be machined from solid blocks of aluminum as well as other material that take specialized equipment to build. Naturally Pro-Tools sells those pieces individually, but they consequently are also the most expensive parts of the bender. The plans are free-feel free to order them and you'll see what I mean-I have 4 fully outfitted shops at my work, we fabricate most everything we need on site and for one piece in particular, we couldn't do it as we didn't have the machine that was needed for that specific part-I forget now what it was. HOWEVER I did build my own bender as mentioned above, that does use a Pro-Tools die. I ordered plans off the internet for around $5.00 or something like that, and built my own out of scrap I had laying around the house-mostly all 2" square tube. The die cost me $245, but the good thing is (and my original intentions) if my bender DIDN"T work, I could buy the Pro-Tools bender package and get a 1.25" die with it, and my current 1.75" die will work with it, then I'd have two sizes to play with. If you'd like to discuss this further, PM me and I'd be happy to go over what I did and how it works.
Anyway, please continue FULL SAIL AHEAD, -stay on your budget, just make smart purchases and you'll be better off in the long run and could even come out Under budget if you play your cards right. My entire point was to try and help make educated decisions towards reaching your goal and I feel very strongly that you'd be seriously hampered in your fabbing abilities with a HF welder, and it would be money well spent to spend a couple hundred extra to get something good that will last, that you can learn and grow on.
Sorry for my horribly long-winded response.
Best of Luck,
Mike
I really hope I didn't "take the wind out of your sails" with my original post-that was DEFINITELY not my point. I'm on a very tight budget myself, and can't afford the tools I'd like to have to get the job done that would make things much easier. I don't have plasma-or even a gas cutting torch! I use a sawzall, chop saw, 4 1/2" angle grinder with cut-off discs for cutting ALL of my work. Depending on what material you're using, this can be expensive in itself just buying all the blades and cut-off discs as they really don't last that long for thicker material-like 3/16" or 1/4". You'll burn up several cut-off discs and flapper discs (sanding discs) in the course of one project. Consumables are part of every project and are HIGHLY overlooked or forgotten about. Overszd made a comment about expecting to spend another 50% more on a project than you originally intended to do-I think that's a great thing to think about as EVERY project I've ever done ended up costing more than I originally intended it to cost-simply because I somehow forgot about buying extra discs or blades, spray paint, more material than I needed, etc. Granted-I STILL built it cheaper than I could have bought it, but even though I did do it cheap, it still wound up costing more than intended.
My points about the harbor freight welder-I don't have one myself, but know a few people who have purchased a couple different models they carry. One of the guys didn't know how to weld, bought the HF model and tried to learn-even took a class at the local college. After purchasing the HF welder, he got so frustrated with welding that he gave up entirely-the machine is sitting under his work bench covered in dust and other crap as he hasn't touched it since. I know two other guys who basically went through the same thing, but wound up getting pissed off and buying a very expensive Miller welder that was way more machine than he is capable of using for occassional weekend work. Money spent twice is ALWAYS going to cost more than one quality machine from the start. Money spent twice out of anger due to a poor decision in the first place-well, that's just asking for trouble-especially with the wife!!! :laugh: Last guy ended up selling his for basically a case of beer and ended up buying a nice Lincoln later.
I did a LOT of research before purchasing my welder, as like you-I am also on a budget. I took a few welding classes years ago in college and used Lincoln welders there. We have a ton of Lincolns in all of the shops at work in the various plants, so I was familiar with them. Nearly everybody I talked to said I HAD to have a 220v welder as 110v would do nothing and would be a waste of money. I couldn't afford a good 220v machine, or the cost of having an electrician wire in a dedicated 220v breaker to run it. After a TON of research, I settled on a Lincoln SP135 Plus Industrial model that I got from Harris for right around $600-it was on special with the cart at the time. Came with .025, .030, .035 tips, gun, liner, spool of wire-basically everything I needed EXCEPT the gas and a good welding helmet. Even had the regulators. The unit itself LOOKS identical to those found at Home Depot or Lowes, Oxarc, your welding shops, etc., but the internals are better and it weighs about 12 pounds more if I remember right than those other models-due to the internals. It has a greater wire speed range and amp setting adjustment, with smooth dial knobs on each so you can really "fine tune" everything. I put in a dedicated 30 or 35 amp breaker (forget now-whatever the manual called for) about 1' below my breaker box in the garage. I have done a LOT of welding with this machine (110v unit) and have NEVER overheated it, or blown the breaker. A lot of guys will argue it isn't enough machine, but for me, it works great and has done everything I've wanted to do-even 1/2" plate -with multiple pass of course. Everything I've built has held up to the useage I put it through-and for some cattle equipment I've built, that's saying a lot.
My point against the Harbor Freight unit was you'd really be kicking yourself getting a lesser machine that will really limit your abilities due to it's inadequacy, and could slow your progress and skills advancement. As you're on a tight budget, skip the bender for now-you won't use it every day and it won't be worth the cost to build one or two projects then sit on the floor the rest of the year. Spend a couple hundred dollars extra and get a GOOD welder that will run when you want it too as well as when you NEED it to. Having a good welder alone will be one of your most used tools in your shop-despite being on a tight budget. With that tool, and something like a DeWalt 4 1/2" angle grinder for around $90, you can cut and weld about anything you'd want for your Jeep. It wasn't till here recently that I got my DeWalt sawzall-again around $100, which has been a huge asset as well. I was given a chop saw, but it's not that great of a model and wanders a bit so the cuts aren't true.
Oh-regarding that harbor freight tube notcher-I DO have one of those and will say don't waste your money on that either. You can expect maybe up to 100 cuts out of it at best, and that's being generous. I wore it out LONG before the actual drill bit wore out. It's currently rigged up with extra spacers, washers, other bolts I put in, T handle I put together and still doesn't work very well. Overall it was a POS and a waste of money-don't buy that one, you can do much better.
As to the bender if you're really interested-I posted the link to Pro-Tools in my earlier post, and Don_TLR showed a link to their "how to" model above. I ordered the plans to build that bender, and still have them sitting on the desk. Unless you have SERIOUS fab and machine skills, that particular bender is not possible for most of the average folks to build-I believe that's why the plans are free. There are several parts that are to be machined from solid blocks of aluminum as well as other material that take specialized equipment to build. Naturally Pro-Tools sells those pieces individually, but they consequently are also the most expensive parts of the bender. The plans are free-feel free to order them and you'll see what I mean-I have 4 fully outfitted shops at my work, we fabricate most everything we need on site and for one piece in particular, we couldn't do it as we didn't have the machine that was needed for that specific part-I forget now what it was. HOWEVER I did build my own bender as mentioned above, that does use a Pro-Tools die. I ordered plans off the internet for around $5.00 or something like that, and built my own out of scrap I had laying around the house-mostly all 2" square tube. The die cost me $245, but the good thing is (and my original intentions) if my bender DIDN"T work, I could buy the Pro-Tools bender package and get a 1.25" die with it, and my current 1.75" die will work with it, then I'd have two sizes to play with. If you'd like to discuss this further, PM me and I'd be happy to go over what I did and how it works.
Anyway, please continue FULL SAIL AHEAD, -stay on your budget, just make smart purchases and you'll be better off in the long run and could even come out Under budget if you play your cards right. My entire point was to try and help make educated decisions towards reaching your goal and I feel very strongly that you'd be seriously hampered in your fabbing abilities with a HF welder, and it would be money well spent to spend a couple hundred extra to get something good that will last, that you can learn and grow on.
Sorry for my horribly long-winded response.
Best of Luck,
Mike
Joined
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791 Posts
[quote='05TJLWBRUBY]I couldn't afford a good 220v machine, or the cost of having an electrician wire in a dedicated 220v breaker to run it. After a TON of research, I settled on a Lincoln SP135 Plus Industrial model that I got from Harris for right around $600-it was on special with the cart at the time.
I put in a dedicated 30 or 35 amp breaker (forget now-whatever the manual called for) about 1' below my breaker box in the garage. [/quote]
I'm confused. You have the breaker box in your garage but couldn't wire in 220? 220v is just two 110v lines and ground. At least in a welder situation, for an appliance that requires 110 as well as 220 there is a neutral as well.
Anyway getting back on topic, defiantly spend the money on a decent welder. I have used cheap welders, the jam and just are a pain to use. My friend bought a Lincoln 180 welder. Best money spent, that welder works as expected every time you pull the trigger.
We actually picked this up from Lowes, but if you do that make sure the welder is one of the newer models. These look to be built better and more durable. The 180 replaced the 175. The controls for the 175 have a cheaper feel, where as the 180 feels solid and just the build of the unit is better.
http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalo ... sp?p=42421
I've bought harbor freight tools in the past, like a drill press that was 20 bucks after discount, and anything from them with an electric motor is just crap. Their air tools work good, but the electric motors just don't have any power to them.
As far as grinders go I'm real happy with my DeWalt grinder. I used my friends 5 amp that we beat the crap out of and went out and bought my own 7.5amp. They work forever and are easy to change the discs on. I can switch from grinding to cutting in 20 seconds or so.
I put in a dedicated 30 or 35 amp breaker (forget now-whatever the manual called for) about 1' below my breaker box in the garage. [/quote]
I'm confused. You have the breaker box in your garage but couldn't wire in 220? 220v is just two 110v lines and ground. At least in a welder situation, for an appliance that requires 110 as well as 220 there is a neutral as well.
Anyway getting back on topic, defiantly spend the money on a decent welder. I have used cheap welders, the jam and just are a pain to use. My friend bought a Lincoln 180 welder. Best money spent, that welder works as expected every time you pull the trigger.
We actually picked this up from Lowes, but if you do that make sure the welder is one of the newer models. These look to be built better and more durable. The 180 replaced the 175. The controls for the 175 have a cheaper feel, where as the 180 feels solid and just the build of the unit is better.
http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalo ... sp?p=42421
I've bought harbor freight tools in the past, like a drill press that was 20 bucks after discount, and anything from them with an electric motor is just crap. Their air tools work good, but the electric motors just don't have any power to them.
As far as grinders go I'm real happy with my DeWalt grinder. I used my friends 5 amp that we beat the crap out of and went out and bought my own 7.5amp. They work forever and are easy to change the discs on. I can switch from grinding to cutting in 20 seconds or so.
Joined
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5,584 Posts
I'm confused. You have the breaker box in your garage but couldn't wire in 220? 220v is just two 110v lines and ground. At least in a welder situation, for an appliance that requires 110 as well as 220 there is a neutral as well.RockRunner85 said:
[/quote]
Sorry for the confusion-I HAD a dedicated line put in-free job from a certified electrician. I have NO CLUE how to wire house stuff and wasn't about to learn here. Ended up getting it installed for free, when the 220v line was going to cost nearly $250-for what, I don't know as the labor he did for the 110v line was only about 10 minutes of work, and I'm confident I could have done it after watching him do it and handing him the parts. Probably could have done the 220v myself too, but again, don't know how and didn't want to risk burning up the house. HE put in a 30 or 35 amp breaker in one of the open spots in the panel, with a lead running about 1' below the box-dedicated to the welder. Standard 110v line with the breaker, just don't have any other items on that line to worry about blowing when I'm welding. It's worked great-never blown and never had the welder overheat and shut down either.
Again, sorry for the confusion there-poor wording choice.
Best of Luck,
Mike
Joined
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151 Posts
thanks 05tj, and i can appreciate the long winded response, actually explained things to the degree that i needed. i am going to send you a pm right after i post this for your bender you built. i like the idea of building it myself and saving some money, but i am still not clear on how that style bender actually works. ill address that in the pm. but anyway, yeah your response was very helpful. :beerchug:
Joined
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151 Posts
thanks to all for all the info and assistance. think i am going to get a lincoln, and hold off for a little while, after a few experiments, and then do the build-a-bender. also looked into the bend-tech pro software, and think it may be a good investment...has a cool feature that lets you print a mask stencil to make your notches...we'll see though...oh and also think i am going to go with the overkill flareless fenders, cheaper than the PSC's, and have a inner fender, direct replacement, no cutting.
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