$2,000?

a 2000 dollar budget, so i am going to buy tires, fenders, a welder, a tube bender, a drill press, and this little tube notcher gizmo that harbor freight sells that is just a jig that goes on the drill press.

for all that?

here are tube fenders off the top of my head.

rev111
tnt
poison spyder
overkill engineering
smitty built made some, thought i heard some thing about them going out of business though

good luck!

 

yeah sounds like alot of stuff, but i did most of the price planning in the harbor frieght catolog. nothing i picked out is very elaborate, just the basic stuff. if i am not convinced by the capability of this welder, then im just gonna tack everything up the way i want it, then take it to a machine shop, and have them run the beads. i want to do it all myself, but ill just have to see. thanks for the info, though...i have seen most of those, and i still am leaning toward the PSC's...

 

I've heard too many horror stories about the PSC tube fenders...

Since you asked for 'all,' here's a guy that will custom make your tube fenders. From my understanding, you actually send him your stock fenders and he builds tube fenders using your parts. That way it fits right. He wheeled with ROF in Moab and most of his Jeep is his own fabrication. But it'll cost you $$$$.

FabWright

Something else to consider if you don't want to cut your hood, just sell your stock hood and pick up an AEV highline hood and wait for ROKMEN to produce their highline tube fenders. Since you have time, why not wait to see what they produce and how you can juggle the cost.

 

I've got the PSC's and they weren't that hard to put on. I think most of the guys that have problems with them have been babied by the aftermarket and don't want to have to work for it. Granted mine were a pain to line up and there was alot of pushing, pulling, and swearing to get them to fit, but I expected that and am not dissapointed. I've actually gotten hung up on a tree with the drivers fender supporting the whole weight of the Jeep. Don't know about other fenders but am more than pleased with mine.

 

I am in the middle of installing the PSC fronts right now. It is going slowly, but in the end I think it's going to work out OK without an excessive amount of frustration. I would say people have been spoiled by the fit of most aftermarket items, not necessarily babied. They expect things to bolt in easily.

A little patience in this install goes a long way. Sometimes the best thing you can do is walk away from it for a while and come back and look at it from a different perspective. This is one mod on a Jeep where the BFH is not necessarily your best friend.

 

i have been reading all the different reviews of the psc's, and while most seem to say the install was a PITA, they also say they are very satisfied with the end result. i have gone to the website and reviewed the install instructions, and honestly, i think if you make your cuts right, and use the hints they give you, it shouldn't be too terribly bad. i am an aircraft mechanic by trade, and believe me, nothing on those things fits right out of the box. i am beginning to lean toward the psc jut because i like the look of them the best, and the people that have done it are happy once it is finished. but i read somewhere that Rokmen has a tube fender, but i cant find it on their website. also wont let me view the description on some of the bumpers. final decision will depend on look, price, and features of the Rokmen unit...that is if i ever get to see it.

 

i have been reading all the different reviews of the psc's, and while most seem to say the install was a PITA, they also say they are very satisfied with the end result. i have gone to the website and reviewed the install instructions, and honestly, i think if you make your cuts right, and use the hints they give you, it shouldn't be too terribly bad. i am an aircraft mechanic by trade, and believe me, nothing on those things fits right out of the box. i am beginning to lean toward the psc jut because i like the look of them the best, and the people that have done it are happy once it is finished. but i read somewhere that Rokmen has a tube fender, but i cant find it on their website. also wont let me view the description on some of the bumpers. final decision will depend on look, price, and features of the Rokmen unit...that is if i ever get to see it.

Be prepared for a 8-12 week wait after ordering PSC's. Took 9 for mine. I posted recently about my thoughts on my PSC's, yes they were a PITA to get lined up. I lost count how many times I set the fender in place judging the little final trims to get them to line up. You say you looked at their directions, well they purposely leave you with quite a bit of excess so you can trim as you want. I was frustrated when I posted my review but now that some time has passed I feel a little better about them. I still dread the thought of removal for paint but they are primed up at least. I'm thinking about painting them on the Jeep.

Good luck in your decision.

 

Zach at http://www.AtoZfabrication.com made mine...great guy, with great prices. Also offers discount for military, if that is why you are overseas.....he'll be getting some more of my money when I get back again.

 

thanks buck, i hadnt heard of those, ill check em out. and yeah over here in Korea with USAF. be back in Dec.

offcamber, your write up was one of the main ones i looked into. i could tell you had a tough time with the whole thing. i think i might could trim about an 1/8th" extra right off the bat, but i dont know i will have to wait and see the thing in front of me...

 

whoohoo rubi wheeler!!! didnt think that thing would ever change!

 

hey buck, got any pics/pricing...my stupid korean internet wont let me view the a to z website...

 

Having just got back from downrange a few months ago, I can relate to laying awake at night thinking about Jeep modifications!!

As for fenders I went with TnT. I believe them to be stronger than PSCs and you don't have a tinny inner fender riveted to the steel fender. I also liked the idea of having my stock fenders to sell.

As for your budget, I believe it to be a little overly optimistic. But everyone's gotta have a goal. Just be prepared to spend 50% more to complete your projects. I fabricate everything I can on my own but still end up spending more money than planned. Beware of trying to stay in budget by buying Harbor Freight off brand equipment. A cheap tube bender is worthless if it crimps your tubing everytime you try to use it. A cheap welder is not cheap if it only welds a few days and then breaks down. If you use Gas with a MIG welder, it will cost you over $100 to buy the first large bottle of gas. A 10lb spool of wire will cost you $20. You'll need something to cut metal with, either a torch or plasma cutter. I have $2500 invested in a MIG welder, stick welder, cutting torch and plasma cutter. If I were to have built my own fenders I would have used a MIG welder, Plasma Cutter, Chop Saw, Tube Bender and Angle Grinder. That's $3000 of equipment. There's just always costs that you miss in the calculations. Buy quality equipment and you will build quality modifications. Also remember that steel prices have been very high. Average price for steel is $1.50 per pound. Quality DOM tubing will cost a couple dollars per foot. So do yourself a favor and overbudget, then you won't be sitting at home depressed that you are out of money and half done with your goals. Not that I've ever done that!!!! :wink:

 

not to hate on PSC, but if their fenders are anything like their corners and even their rock sliders, they could be better fitting without as much hassle by the installer. just basing this on the fit of their corners and sliders vs Rokmen's.

 

i read somewhere that Rokmen has a tube fender, but i cant find it on their website. also wont let me view the description on some of the bumpers. final decision will depend on look, price, and features of the Rokmen unit...that is if i ever get to see it.

There are pics of the Rokmen high clearance tube fenders on Jeff@Rokmen's Jeep here:

Minesweeper Trail Colorado 4-21-07

Rokmen is not in production with them yet. I'm sure they will announce here on ROF first when they're ready for production.

 

thanks buck, i hadnt heard of those, ill check em out. and yeah over here in Korea with USAF. be back in Dec.

offcamber, your write up was one of the main ones i looked into. i could tell you had a tough time with the whole thing. i think i might could trim about an 1/8th" extra right off the bat, but i dont know i will have to wait and see the thing in front of me...

There's one cut if you go by the instructions that will leave over a 1/2" to much, by the time I was on the second one the instructions were in the garbage.

Also some of the mentioned being spoiled by the industry doesn't cover the fact that my passenger side had a 1/8" bow in the middle of the fender. The whole thing had a bow in it. We put it in a 50 ton press between two 1" plates and heated it with a torch just to get it to half way lay flat. I understand after market doesn't always fit perfect and nothing I've put on my Jeep has but that was a little ridiculous.

 

As for your budget, I believe it to be a little overly optimistic. But everyone's gotta have a goal. Just be prepared to spend 50% more to complete your projects. I fabricate everything I can on my own but still end up spending more money than planned. Beware of trying to stay in budget by buying Harbor Freight off brand equipment. A cheap tube bender is worthless if it crimps your tubing everytime you try to use it. A cheap welder is not cheap if it only welds a few days and then breaks down. If you use Gas with a MIG welder, it will cost you over $100 to buy the first large bottle of gas. A 10lb spool of wire will cost you $20. You'll need something to cut metal with, either a torch or plasma cutter. I have $2500 invested in a MIG welder, stick welder, cutting torch and plasma cutter. If I were to have built my own fenders I would have used a MIG welder, Plasma Cutter, Chop Saw, Tube Bender and Angle Grinder. That's $3000 of equipment. There's just always costs that you miss in the calculations. Buy quality equipment and you will build quality modifications. Also remember that steel prices have been very high. Average price for steel is $1.50 per pound. Quality DOM tubing will cost a couple dollars per foot. So do yourself a favor and overbudget, then you won't be sitting at home depressed that you are out of money and half done with your goals. Not that I've ever done that!!!! :wink:

I also wanted to stress these points, regardless of what fenders you end up with in the long run. While having a budget is definitely a good thing and I'm not discouraging you in the least from sticking to it, I definitely agree with the comments above regarding quality tools. Harbor Freight is not a place I'd be looking for welders or tube bending equipment. Keep in mind there are two kinds of tube-actual "tubing" which is measured in outside diameter, and pipe-measured inside diameter. A "pipe" bender such as those found at Harbor Freight will NOT work for bending tube with. Sure, there are guys that do it, but the quality of the bends is very poor-I've seen several attempts myself and it isn't pretty. Pro-Tools makes some decent benders for a decent price, but expect to spend around $650 or so for a good bender at minimum. The thing to keep in mind is the dies are the expensive part-my 1.75" tube die from Pro-Tools cost me around $245 for the die and follower block alone! I built the bender myself luckily out of material I had laying around the house, but still had to buy the die. Here is there site: http://www.pro-tools.com/105.htm Check with them often, and especially around Christmas time-they had an awesome deal last year for right at or around $1,000 that included the model 105 bender with your choice of 5 dies and the bend-tech basic program all as one package they called the "racer special". Sometimes they have pretty good deals, so watch for them.

As to welders-I got a small 110v Lincoln unit, I believe a model SP135Plus Industrial model for a good price. Harris welding had it the best deal at the time, though it's not offered on their site anymore. Here is a link to Harris: http://www.harrisweldingsupplies.com/in ... ategory=60 While my welder isn't there, I had a dedicated line wired in about 1' below my main breaker box. I've welded up to 1/2" plate with this unit (multiple pass of course) with zero issues, never overheated the machine and never blown the breaker. Keep in mind, I did install the recommended 30 amp, or 35 amp breaker, and my machine is the "industrial" model which has better internals than those you'd find at Lowes, Home Depot or the like. Totally different machines. Do your homework here, and definitely don't skimp on this equipment-it will bite you in the long run.

Unfortunately I'm not lucky enough to have plasma, or even gas cutting torches. I use grinders with cut-off wheels, chop saws and sawzalls for all my cutting work-which all cost money as well and quality tools are not cheap. I've worked with inexpensive cheap tools in the past and there's nothing more frustrating than getting half-way through a project and having your grinder take a dump on you when the hardware store is closed. While it may be more costly in the beginning, quality tools will pay for themselves the first time your cheap knock-off craps out.

Lastly-as also mentioned, steel prices are really on the rise. Not to dispute Ovrszd'd claims above, but I just purchased 1.75" DOM tubing in 20' sticks for $98 each-that's WITH a discount! That's $4.90 a foot-making mistakes in measurements, angles, cuts etc., really adds up to a LOT of money lost if not done right the first time. Another very valid arguement for good tools here-having a poor welder or bender ruin tubing this expensive and you won't be completing any projects any time soon.

I wish you the Best of Luck with your goals and projects, just caution against doing too much too soon. Maybe get a good solid reliable welder at first and hold off on the bender for a while till funds allow. I'd personally rather have a machine I can use every day to do multiple things with, and farm out the simple stuff that requires expensive equipment that can be done easily at a shop for minimal price. Lots of places can bend tube at your dimensions for fairly cheap. Might consider buying some Bend-Tech software, typing out all your figures and measurements, then cutting the pieces to length, marking the tubing and taking all the pre-measured stuff in to get bent-just an idea. A bender is a tool that isn't used that often unless you're in the business specifically and could be money well spent elsewhere on other quality tools you'd use more often. Might get you up and producing other quality pieces yourself for your rig sooner and provide a greater range of what you can actually build, saving some money short term yet still allowing the feasibility to do what you want later.

Anyway, sorry to ramble on with senseless thoughts-I'm off to start my Rokmen Stryker install project and fab up some additional mounts/brackets for them and other items as well and see what I can do with my cage project.

Best of Luck,

Mike

 

hey buck, got any pics/pricing...my stupid korean internet wont let me view the a to z website...

Search my posts on here, I put all my pics on a thread about 1 yr ago....
i get a weird website too.....as for pricing I got a cage built at the same time, but I think Zach sells them for about 600, and mine had a custom width flare to cover my tires.

Here's the link....
http://www.rubiconownersforum.com/phpbb ... highlight=

 

X2 on FABWRIGHT....his fenders and other stuff are SOLID....you won't be disappointed. And no silicone needed.

 

wow, i appreciate all of the fabrication info. i wasnt aware that the harbor freight bender was that far off. a friend at my last base had one and we used it to make a hoop for his tacomas bumper. didnt notice any issues, but then i might not have known what to look for. i can say this, i WILL NOT spend that kind of money on something that is support for a hobby. first off, my wife would have a duck if i so much as hinted at spending more money to build something than what i would just to buy iti ready to go, and honestly i would tend to agree. the kind of money that you guys are talking about putting into these tools, i could completely outfit my jeep with proven equipment. guess ill just let rokmen do it... :|

 

I am really happy with the PSC fenders...

 

wow, i appreciate all of the fabrication info. i wasnt aware that the harbor freight bender was that far off. a friend at my last base had one and we used it to make a hoop for his tacomas bumper. didnt notice any issues, but then i might not have known what to look for. i can say this, i WILL NOT spend that kind of money on something that is support for a hobby. first off, my wife would have a duck if i so much as hinted at spending more money to build something than what i would just to buy iti ready to go, and honestly i would tend to agree. the kind of money that you guys are talking about putting into these tools, i could completely outfit my jeep with proven equipment. guess ill just let rokmen do it... :|

That all depends on how much fabrication you are going to do. You are right, you shouldn't spend a couple grand on tools to fabricate one project. But those of us that have talked about buying equipment expect long term use from it. And we use our equipment regularly. For example I've burned 50 pounds of MIG welder wire since January. So if you don't plan to use your metal equipment the rest of your life, then you should buy your products from a company already assembled. What you will pay a company to weld you up a bumper would buy you a new cutting torch. If you buy two bumpers from someone, you could have purchased a decent MIG welder. If you throw in Rocker Guards with the two bumpers you could have purchased the torch and welder. Not picking on manufactured products, just making a point.

 

wow, i appreciate all of the fabrication info. i wasnt aware that the harbor freight bender was that far off. a friend at my last base had one and we used it to make a hoop for his tacomas bumper. didnt notice any issues, but then i might not have known what to look for. i can say this, i WILL NOT spend that kind of money on something that is support for a hobby. first off, my wife would have a duck if i so much as hinted at spending more money to build something than what i would just to buy iti ready to go, and honestly i would tend to agree. the kind of money that you guys are talking about putting into these tools, i could completely outfit my jeep with proven equipment. guess ill just let rokmen do it... :|

That all depends on how much fabrication you are going to do. You are right, you shouldn't spend a couple grand on tools to fabricate one project. But those of us that have talked about buying equipment expect long term use from it. And we use our equipment regularly. For example I've burned 50 pounds of MIG welder wire since January. So if you don't plan to use your metal equipment the rest of your life, then you should buy your products from a company already assembled. What you will pay a company to weld you up a bumper would buy you a new cutting torch. If you buy two bumpers from someone, you could have purchased a decent MIG welder. If you throw in Rocker Guards with the two bumpers you could have purchased the torch and welder. Not picking on manufactured products, just making a point.

so are you saying if only plan on using this stuff say a handful of times in the course of a year, but just want to be able to make my own stuff then the less expensive tools would be ok? i also dont have a problem with tacking everything in to place and then having a pro run the beads for me. i mentioned this before in my original post. i just really want my own design. i am fairly confident that if i take my time and make sure my measurements are right that i can build whatever i want...cheap tools or not. if i understand you correctly the main difference in the tools you are talking about, and the stuff i am looking at, is durability and speed. if thats the case i can appreciate that, but i am not sure i want to go head over heals into this without having even starting it yet. my first jeep wasnt a rubi it was a 79' cj beater, and i am not entirely sure my start in fabrication should be quite so involved. i am only a Staff Sergeant in the Air Force, and i cant afford to buy that caliber of equipment. just the other day i found a post from a guy who built rear tube fenders with nothing but a welder and a cut off saw. everyone applauded him for his ingenuity, and now i feel very discouraged from even trying to get started in this. if i do decide to go through with my plan it will be the way i originally planned it. if i take to it, and i want to get more involved, then i will upgrade equipment later as i can afford to. at least this way i can do something while i wait to upgrade. it just doesnt make any sense to me to dump thousands of dollars into expensive equipment when i am just trying this out for the first time on my own. sorry to get spun up like this, i just really feel like the wind has been taken out of my sails, and now i am second guessing the whole project, when i am not sure if i really have a reason to...

 

As a fellow NCO, don't let anything anyone on a website says deter you from your own goals. If you are second guessing, it's from your own doubts. Buy whatever you want. Build whatever you want. No one on here really, truly cares or will lose any sleep over it. Act like an NCO. Do your own thing. Then report it on here proudly. That's what will get you respect. No piece of equipment in my shop or modification on my Jeep is bought or done to please anyone on here. :roll:

 

Overkill Engineering Tube Fenders

I saw them mentioned, like the look of them(without the flare), was wondering if anyone had personal experience with these?

 

ok well it seems we gotta little side tracked from the point. Anyway, all i was wondering was, is there a reason why these inexpensive tools wont work under limited use. if its a for sure deal that these items are absolutly, 100% useless for what i plan to do with them, then i would like to know. i appreciate all the input, just trying to learn exactly why the harbor freight items are no good. Also someone said they built there own tube bender, could you post some pics, and description of this. i could see bolstering the budget a little to get a better product, but i just cant drop 700 bucks on one tool.