[sierrabob]

SteveV8,
What are ground straps, not familiar with that term.
I did have trouble pulling the sensor connector apart and man handled it. Other than looking at connector is there a way to test with a meter?
If I did screw up the connector that is on the wire bundle how do I replace that? Cut and splice a new one?
Thanks Bob

 

[sierrabob]

All good information. I'll get right on to checking the sensor plug and fuses.

Just wondering how you can determine if the cats are good. To check the cats do I need to pull off the exhaust pipe and take a look. If the insides of the cats look intact are the cats good?

 

[sierrabob]

Trying to get the stock 05 Rubicon to pass the smog test

I have read that Jeep on board computers go haywire sometimes and will keep you posted on fixing this problem for the benefit of others.

Problem all 4 O2 sensors code bad after replacing one

Checked the fuses and all seem good. Actual #16 is missing on my Jeep, 05 Rubican. Since I don't have one and no codes before this, guess I don't have to have one.

Looked for a loose ground finding nothing at this point that appears loose or faulty. I'll keep looking though.

O2 electric plugs look OK even though I broke the plastic lock off one, which really pissed me off, it still pushes snug and tight. guess I will have to safty wire to make sure it remains locked tight.

* Got talked into putting in a Mopar O2 sensor from the Jeep Dealer. As noted on the original post I changed the O2 sensor for an O'Reiily NTK. I found a chart that list the O'Reiily as a substitute rather than OEM even though the Mopar one is an NTK too and looks exactly the same it does have a different part number.

So I got to start somewhere even though I am not happy to spend $65 for a new o2 sensor and then replace it with a $85 o2 sensor

Cleared the codes and now driving to get data for the required smog test. If the codes come back the next step is the dealer wants to reflash the PCM.

I'll take words of wisdom from the forum. Thanks Bob

 

[sierrabob]

OP here. I have been waiting after the complete fix to give a report. As the thread is active I will report what I have so far.

Bad PCM based on local shop diagnostic tests and also based on the experience of the mechanic.

I first changed out the O2 sensor with a NTK from Oriles auto parts. After installing the new O2 sensor five codes show up indicating all the O2 sensors were bad.

As I was confused and looking for help I asked the dealer and they said I needed to buy a Mopar O2 sensor. So bought a Mopar NTK and still all the codes indicated all the O2 sensors were bad. So now into O2 sensors for $65 and $100 or some thing like that. The shop charged me $98.00 for the diagnostic tests.

The shop recommended I send the PCM to BBA Remanufacturing Inc., 300 Myles Standish Blvd., Taunton, MA 02780, us.shop.bba-reman.com.

The price for repair is less than $300.00 they say. I sent it in last week and have not heard back from them yet.

I will post when I have more information.

Just a note, the mechanic told me that Jeep PSM's have a design problem. Computers only need low voltage to run and higher voltage will damage some components. Jeep PCM's have additional voltage running through it, he claims, but used for other components. I'm told the proper design is to have the computer send a signal to a relay outside of the mother board to power other devices. I don't have any first hand knowledge about this but if true then Jeep designed a headache for us.

 

[sierrabob]

OP here with update on the bad Jeep Rubicon 2005 PCM/ECU. Received a call and email from the company I sent the Jeep computer to for repair.

The PCM is the problem, bad news is it can't be repaired. Attached is the email sent to me by the repair company. I am showing you the email for a reference to anyone with a similar problem. I have purchased the remanufactured PCM from them.

Good Afternoon,

We have your ECU here for your 2005 Jeep Wrangler. Unfortunately we were unable to repair your unit. The codes are hard set into the unit and we are not able to clear or repair the unit. However, I do have one at my stock location if you are interested, the exchange unit would be $475 plus shipping. There is also a $100 fee to program the unit. We will need your correct VIN and Mileage to do so. It would come with our lifetime warranty as long as the owner stays the same of the vehicle .
Thank you,

Brianna Costa
Customer Service

1-866-573-2740

BBA-Remanufacturing USA
300 Myles Standish Blvd.
Taunton, MA 0278

 

[sierrabob]

OP new report, the misery continues.

Installed the remanufactored PCM from BBA and the Jeep would not start and got error code "Jeep PCM not programed." I had paid an extra $100 for programing and this was suppose to be plug and play. BBA technician said some time you need to take it to the dealer for programing. But it was suppose to be plug and play and my mechanic said it should be P+P and that's how they are sold by other internet sellers. So think they either didn't program it or the unit is defective.

The dealer said I'm to busy call me next week and I'd have to tow 30 miles and the secretary at BBA was a crank so I just sent it back. BTW no refund clause, they now say, until I send them the recipe for a replacement PCM %$#@!!

Now looking for a reputable PCM seller, again. Lots of complaints listed for these type of companies. Anyone know of a reputable PCM remanufactured I can get a PCM from?

 

[sierrabob]

Just called the dealer. Said 3-4 week back order for a remanufactured one. Cost PCM $741 programing $175 some other charge $121 = $1037 then tax. Plus they need the Jeep in the shop.

Just talked to Soloauto.com, tech says they don't do 05-06 jeeps any more because the pcm's have too many problems

Rock Auto does not show listing for Jeep PCM and no phone number.

I'm getting warn down on this though. Having Chrysler regrets.

 

[sierrabob]

Update from op:
Still having big problems. Sent the PCM back to BBA and got sour response from them. Getting my money back looked hard and getting another PCM from another place looked worse.

So I asked them to reprogram and send it back. They did send it back but did nothing and also sent no corespondence. Now that they have my money their phone conversations are not nice either. Had the Jeep towed to the dealer in the next town because our dealer here seems to not want my business based on how they behave and prices they want to charge.

New dealer tried to program the PCM but... Would not start at first because of some anti theft key problem. But they called the next day and said they got pasted that but now the transmission control module will not recognize the new PCM and gives error code. Will call again tomorrow and see if they fixed that. But the cost is going up

SteveVB, I'm going to show the service bulletin to the dealer and see what that is worth.

Anyway, the jeeps been down over a two months. From what I have gleaned out of the internet searches the 05-06 Jeeps have a faulty PCM and the outfits that deal used ones to us are taking advantage of us and chances are 50/50 they send you a busted one. The price for the 05 PCM is hundreds of dollars more than other jeep PCM's and no one will give a straight guarantee. Googled complaints about the companies are extensive. They are ripping us off and Chrysler appears to have abandon us as well. Excuse the tone but it is a huge hassle and costly too.

One good thing is I have had friendly help from my fellows on this forum. I thank you and it helps a lot.

 

[sierrabob]

The dealer service guy said that the PCM is bad and yes the TCM is incorporated into the PCM on 05-06 and I got a busted one

Dealer says a PCM remanufactured through the dealership is back ordered 18 deep and that means they can't get them.

Will keep you informed. Now got to deal with this company BBA again to get a another PCM.

Jeep is sitting down at the dealers parking lot and at least they said I can leave it there for now.

 

[sierrabob]

op up date:
BBA will not send me another PCM, say that the problem is the Jeep
Dealer says it is the PCM!
BBA will not refund my money until I send them a receipt for another PCM

Service guy says he can get a PCM for $800. Every time they work on the Jeep it is $100-200. This will probably cost me $1200-$1500. I have talked with him about making double sure that there is no problem with the wiring harness. He also says he will experiment with my old PCM by replacing it and seeing what error codes come up.

This process has shown me that modern electronics are not dependable, an outfit like Chrysler sells bad products and the trouble shooting is poor.

One thing is certain, everyone will take my money.

 

[sierrabob]

OP update: Jeep dealer called and said the Jeep is fixed. Yea Cost $1250.00 Boo

This includes a remanufactured PCM but this time comes from Chrysler parts department. I've got a real guaranty this time, I'll just have to sell my first born.

I'm sure I will have to drive it awhile to be sure that no codes come up. But I can relax as they will back up their work and parts... they say.

As to the first remanufactored PCM sold to me from BBA, it is definatly bad and confirmed by a reputable shop and Jeep dealer. Last phone conversation secretary said no way the PCM was bad. She said there was a clause that I needed a receipt for another PCM purchase for me to get a return. Well now I do. I asked for my refund via email twice and BBA is not answering! I paid $650.00 for a programed PCM and they gave me a guaranty but now this the jerk treatment.

Plan to call and try to get someone to allow me to send it back for a refund. I hate this sort of thing as it takes time and energy and requirers me to deal with nasty people.

 

[sierrabob]

Oh man... Even don't what to tell you... Just for those that might come down this path, just a word of caution.

Drove the Jeep home from the dealer with the second remanufactured PCM and the next day started it and gages went nuts and check engine light came on.

Now have new engine codes:

U0101, Lost comm with TCM

U0155, Lost com with instrument panel cluster (IPC) Ctrl Mod.

Looks like another bad PCM Making it 3 for this Jeep.

Could be a plug connection but still engine codes.


Had planed on taking the Jeep Elk Hunting into the Monitor Range central Nevada this weekend but!

Anyway the PCM nightmare is still with my 05 Rubicon

One good thing BBA is taking back the dysfunctional PCM they sent me but haven't got the money yet.

Will now have to take the Jeep back to the dealer, at least I have that.

My friend, trying to keep me grounded, says things happen and guess they do but holy cow, what a bummer. The reality is If you do a web search after awhile you will see what goes... Chrysler sold their customers a bad PCM and has abandon it's responsibility.

Now scavengers are enjoying the harvest. Excuse the drama but this seems to be true. Finding another PCM will not be easy and will be costly.

 

[sierrabob]

A friend that is an experienced car restorer, suggests that I replace the ignition switch based on the codes that came and that the dash cluster problem was initiated while I was turning the key to start.

He believes that the codes might indicate a momentary loss of communication not necessarily a PSM malfunction. Also if my memory serves me right I have seen this cluster mis-action, all gages act as they have lost power, before with the original PCM. Although the original PCM never gave these type of codes.

He also warns me that weird problem like this are difficult to track down by standard mechanics, take someone that has specific experience. So might be out of the dealers mechanics abilities.

BTW Jeep runs fine so still may take it hunting.

Anyway reporting to Rubicon Owners Forum helps me calm down and collect my thoughts. Thanks fellows for being here.

 

[sierrabob]

OP with update on the third PCM and codes it threw.

Called the dealer and service guy and I talked about the next step. Cleared the codes and went hunting.

No elk but engine check light came on with code p0038. This is a new code and the earlier PCM's did not have this one. Taking the Jeep to the dealer again. I'll update when I have the results.

 

[sierrabob]

Can this Jeep PCM problem get worse, Yes it can and it has.

Took the Jeep into the dealer and the nice service guy that got me to bring in the Jeep had down cast eyes and didn't want to talk to me and I was sent down to another service guy. He listen to me but made little connection to situation and history of the Jeep problem. He just wanted me to leave the Jeep and go. I didn't know then but I was being manipulated and set up.

Today, this second service guy called me after the shop analysis and said he recommended all O2 sensors be replaced... to start.

But wait, I wanted to know "what if's" and discuss the PCM as possibly being bad and their shops responsibility and promised guarantee since I just paid for analysis, a new PCM, all costing $1250.00 and promised this would fix it.

Which BTW I fully discussed with the first service man before any work was done and I was assured their shop knew what to do and would back up their work. How wrong, it appears, I was in believing him.

The discussion went on with the second service guy until I realized he was the guy that people are sent to when the dealers repairs don't fix the problem. He is the stone wall! Essentially he told me I was going to pay for all parts and time regardless of the situation. He also said if the PCM they put in was bad it was shorted out by my Jeep after I picked it up.

Holy ripoff, I'm so pissed.

He said if I didn't like what he was telling me I could come and pick up the Jeep and go away I still insisted on fair treatment and he then said I should talk to the service manage but read reviews about him and he was discribed as another real jerk.

So here I go again. Jeep is throwing the check engine light and can't get it to pass smog. Now I have to deal with another outfit that apparently can't analyze a problem and fix a problem but resorts to changing out parts until it is fixed with the cost going to the consumer... me

Where is the quality, honesty and just plain moral decency? So far it isn't at this Dealer, Carson Dodge Chrysler Jeep.

I'm not done. I am going to drive down tomorrow, over 60 miles one way and talk with the service manager and also make an appointment with the owner. Such a bummer, again. Just tire of this.

Another note... owner is lost in a corporation. Found the president but searching only found a front company with no address. Man am I screwed

 

[sierrabob]

Steve,
Sounds like a regional manufactures rep might be helpful. Since I haven't gone to step two and screwed up with the dealership powers to be yet, that may be my best bet.

I am in Nevada and probably this might be northern California and Nevada combined rep. Just how can I find him or her?

Note: just did a search and only found dead ends looking for a Chrysler rep. Maybe should look under a rock.

 

[sierrabob]

OP with update...

The general manager stepped in and seems to be trying to understand the situation and come to a resolution.

My view: 05-06 Jeep PCM's are lemons, remanufactured label is meaning less as bench testing cannot be done, these are off the shelf from junk yards. A real test is putting it in a vehicle.

Me to Gen Manager: If you do not have documentation that this PCM you installed was tested OK then this is from a junkyard. Now I am the test and it is not OK.

What I agreed to do: Replace all O2 sensors, I will pay dealers cost. If PCM throws codes again the dealer will warranty PCM and replace.

I went along with this since It is the best choice.

Note: Regional Chrysler rep apparently backed up my conclusions about the PCM's.

BTW BLACK RUBI, I was fired up and ready to carry a sign walking in front of the dealer lot! Plus thinking on the same lines as you have suggested. Hopefully the gen manager is for real and cooler heads will prevail.

 

[sierrabob]

OP update: Dealer shop called and left message late Friday, back to the nice guy now. No info about the PCM work, something else!

Oil pump drive assembly is making noise and mechanic recommends to replace unit. Didn't get price but Quadratec has the part for $109.00. UTube has several good videos on replacing so I will do it myself.

Lots of info about this on forums and looks like another Chrysler Jeep reputation problem. You guys probably know all about and I'm just saying what I found for my own knowledge and maybe others like myself. Here is the quick story about the OPDA Oil Pump Drive Assembly.

Chrysler Jeep manufacture installed faulty OPDA's in 05-06 Jeeps with an S in the vin at the eighth letter. I'm so lucky, that is my Jeep. This is an external oil pump the rides on the cam gear, failure may cause damage to the cam and engine will stop. Note: this problem may occur in any 4.0 Jeep engines.

Chrysler Jeep knew this and sent a letter to the dealers "suggesting" all Jeeps in their inventory have the OPDA replace before selling. The big problem is no recall and no requirement to change. Why would a manufacture not want all Jeeps fixed when their assembly line put in faulty parts that can cause catastrophic engine failure? Why not have all previously sold Jeeps called to the dealer for replacement? Money before honor, seems to be low down behavior to me.

Anyway I like my Jeep but think badly about Chrysler/Jeep as a company and wondering what next?

 

[sierrabob]

Yes, the OPDA is a known issue. Recently owners have been finding the Crown OPDA to be better than the Dorman. A search on the forum will be helpful for you.

These vehicles are bought for their capabilities, not their overall reliability. Considering the harsh treatment they get ( compared to a Honda sedan, for instance) it is reasonable to have wear and breakage not found in the vehicles most are used to. Owners do need to anticipate this and be diligent in inspection and lubrication so that problems are avoided by early correction. As you modify your jeep you will need to strengthen vulnerable areas.

This forum is a great place to learn.

Just verbalizing my exasperation at Chrysler/Jeep for selling vehicles with PCM and OPDA that have a KNOWN design/build problem that can fail prematurely at the cost of the buyer.

They apparently made a corporate decision knowing that it would cost them customer loyalty and project a shady image and give the buyer a headache.

What kind of outfit would make that call? If it was a dollar and cents issue they must have calculated that into their thinking.

Money for honor, doesn't meet my moral code.

And yes I am new to Jeep ownership, had to satisfy a long time desire for the for an awesome 4 wheeler. Got me a clean good looking Rubicon TJ with 110K miles but lots of that tow. But the trouble trying to smog it and working with dealers etc has been frustrating and educational. As in learning what a hornets sting feels like.