[mikel]

Like many on here, I wonder what the next step would be for my 4.0. Rebuild it? Stroker? 5.7 VVT? Will Mopar offer a a retro fit kit for the Pentastar for the TJ?

Well, after a couple announcements this week, I'm wondering what the future will hold.

This week the EPA waived the limitations on selling E15 for 2007 and newer vehicles. The next pending waiver is for the 2000-2006 and there is little doubt it is coming.

It didn't take long. The local NBC affiliate in Denver ran a story announcing CO is going E15. They really didn't know what the bottom line would mean to the gas buying public. How would it be implemented, when, what gas will be carried going forward, etc. are all still big questions.

Yesterday, NASCAR announced it will be E15 compliant next season.

What does this all mean for our 4.0? Even more so, what about the 4.6L stroker? Will they survive on E15?

 

[KaiserJeep]

It means that the already terrible 4.0L gas mileage will get worse because alcohol contains less energy per gallon than gasoline. Our engines will be down on power and the range per tank will be reduced. This was already noticeable with the 10% alcohol blends permitted before now, it will be more so with 15% alcohol.

It means that American mechanized agriculture methods will consume more petroleum-sourced gas and diesel fuels in the growing of non-food crops that will be brewed into fuel, so there will be little or no reductions in importing oil. In the process, as government-subsidized E15 gets cheaper than 100% petroleum-based fuels, the fuel crops will displace food production, grain exports will get reduced, and people in 3rd world countries will begin to starve for lack of cheap American grain. Meanwhile we will be paying higher Federal and State taxes for fuel subsidies, and higher prices for domestic food crops.

It means that as the years pass and the corrosive alcohol mixtures attack the variety of materials in our Jeep fuel systems, we will bear much increased maintenance costs and a number of extra vehicle fires and our Jeeps will refuse to work more often than with gasoline fuel. The TJ fuel systems were designed for 10% alcohol maximum, hopefully the 2007+ JK's were designed for higher concentrations.

As for stroker motors, it is much harder to raise the octane rating of a fuel that is higher in alcohol. But assuming you can buy sufficient octane rating for a high compression engine (which in turn depends upon which oxygenated fuel base is used for the mix) than we may be able to recover some of the lost power.

 

[jolivergraham]

^Well said!
I don't like result, however

 

[Okies]

Where do I start?.......

In the high performance bass boating world we are fawked. These high horse 2 strokes are not designed for this crap. I am alreading seeing blown engines from E10 blends. I am also seeing/reading about people blowing chainsaws and weedeaters..

I have already replaced all my fuel lines on my boat due to the E10 blend eating away at the lining of the fuel lines. I have 2 filters to prove it.

From my understanding your Governement exempted 2 strokes. I figure my lawn mower, edge trimmer and weedeater will blow next season.

At least I'll spur the economy with buying new lawn care crap each year. Not much I can do when the boat blows except use it for structure fishing when I sink the POS...

I am all for saving the planet but this new stuff is not the answer. I really don't think it's about saving the planet, I feel it's more about money. Money that we won't never see.

 

[gregert12]

I read that there will still be the option of opting out of E15 since certain gas stations will sell E10. There is no way 2 stroke engines can run this garbage, my quad already has problems using E10 on Super.


This is one way to spur the economy, make everyone buy new 2 cycles if they forget to drain the machine after the season. :|

 

[KaiserJeep]

Yes, of course it is about money. But IMHO it is also a solution that comes with a set of unnecessary problems and troubling moral issues. We have already touched upon some of the technical problems, please keep them coming, and we will start to develope means of coping with them, and a body of knowledge about alcohol fuels for Jeeps online.

I do NOT think however that we have any business making fuel out of grain that would otherwise be used to feed hungry people. I'm no bleeding heart, and in fact I do believe in brewing and distilling grains into beers and whiskies and other products for human consumption - most definately. I also believe that everything we can do to wean ourselves off of foriegn oil should be done - whether we get it from Mexico or Iran or that Commie in Venezuela, too many of our own "petro-dollars" come back as some form of anti-American Terrorism. But at the same time, knowing that cheap vehicle fuels to support an energy-intensive American lifestyle causes people in Asia and Africa and South America to starve is a troubling thought.

But like it or not, the politics of the moment say alcohol fuels are happening.

There was an earlier thread a couple of months back about a conversion kit for E85 fuels. With such a kit installed, a Jeep should be able to burn any mix of alcohol from 0% to 85%. I expressed an interest since I am retiring within 10 years and I want to keep my TJ as long as possible, even decades. I was hoping somebody else would report on their success with the conversion kit.

 

[jolivergraham]

There was an earlier thread a couple of months back about a conversion kit for E85 fuels. With such a kit installed, a Jeep should be able to burn any mix of alcohol from 0% to 85%. I expressed an interest since I am retiring within 10 years and I want to keep my TJ as long as possible, even decades. I was hoping somebody else would report on their success with the conversion kit.

We could all band together and buy up a bunch of Flex Fuel/whatever-they're-called engines! Then we could fun E15 all the time and get a little better power. Plus, then we're prepared for E20, E25, and whatever crap they force us to buy. If a bunch of us got together, we could likely get a pretty sweet deal! Group Buy anyone?

 

[eatrocks]

Yes the boating world is exempt. But that means you have to buy boat gas at a marina not at the gas station in town. Boat gas used to be dyed a different color as were the different grades.

Use food for fuel is just dumb! There have been studies done all ready that show the cost of groceries has gone up 3 to 4 percent as a result of corn being used for fuel. Farmers get a better profit from the corn they sell for fuel. It’s a lower non food corn or something like that easier for them to grow. Using food for fuel has got to be one of the dumbest blunders of all time. I drive across Nebraska 2 or 3 times a year. I try hard to not buy gas in that state, though it’s cheaper per gallon. I could not even drive in 5th gear in my 2003 or 5th or 6th in my 05 due to the loss of power. Miles per gallon drop from 17 to 9 or 10. There is no savings here.

 

[06Black_rubi]

Small engine repair people love this stuff!

But anyway here is a list of stations that sell ethanol-free gasoline in the U.S. and Canada. It's the internet so take it for what it's worth:

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

The list of where it is required is suprisingly small. I wonder why they sell it all over the place?:

http://www.epa.gov/oms/rfg/whereyoulive.htm

I personly hate the stuff... but if you need to make it, make it out of algae. It grows quick, it's not a food, It's been proven to work, but for some reason..... they aint doing it.... Hmmmm I wonder why??? special intrest groups maybe?

 

[gregert12]

I personly hate the stuff... but if you need to make it, make it out of algae. It grows quick, it's not a food, It's been proven to work, but for some reason..... they aint doing it.... Hmmmm I wonder why??? special intrest groups maybe?