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Hello everyone,
Quick story, 04 Rubi, 143k miles, 4.10s, stock mtrs, etc all stock pretty much. My rubi seems to be lacking in the power department and I'm a little paranoid that my engine is going to crap out on me. So this thread is my planning for failure thread :lildevil: .
When the current engine goes I'll likely want more power, so here are the options I believe I have in an attempt to remain Smog legal incase I move to one of those commi states. :rotflmao:
My goals:
Increase power by a reasonable amount
Appear and function as stock. (AC, electronics, gauges, etc.)
Perform swap in my own garage (No sending car off for a week and having it built)
Retain manual transmission and transfer case.
Stroker:
I was initially thinking this would be my best option since it's basically the same engine just bigger internally. For those who are familiar with the Jargon, 81-90 crank, 4.0 "long" rods, IC944 (Keith Black's) in the .030 flavor dished 21.7 cm, 24lb injectors, Comp Cam. Not too much machine work as far as milling the head down and all that, the goal is to run on pump gas. Different intake, exhaust, etc, double roller chain.
HP: Supposedly 260, realistically 240.
Cost: $1500
The pros: Same engine essentially, emissions should be pretty easy to pass since its visibly a 4.0. Comparatively cheap, bolts back in.
The cons: Might not be powerful enough to make the swap worth it.
LsX:
I like this option because the engines are great, they're cheap, novak has really streamlined the process with all their awesome goodies. I was thinking 5.3 but it would probably be a 6.0 just because they're the same size so why not? I heard a lot of the early swaps were a royal pain because of the wiring issues between the gauges, fuel pump, DBW and loss of cruise.
HP: LS6 6.0 385-400, LM7 5.3 285-295, LQ4 6.0 300-325, LQ9 6.0 345
Cost: TBD Awaiting info from Novak
The pros: Parts availability, oem and aftermarket or performance. Novak makes all kinds of trick parts to streamlining the swap from motor mounts to adapters to wiring harness to exhaust not to mention support.
The cons: Wiring/ DIY might be a pain in the ass. Ok, Just got off the phone with Novak 9-17-10. Here's the skinny, you'll need the following:
LsX Engine (These are the recommended ones: LM7 5.3 285-295HP, L33 5.3 310HP, LQ4 6.0 300-325HP, LQ9 6.0 345HP)
Motor Mounts $165
Radiator $400
Gen I Chevy Bellhousing $150
Gauges $300 (You send in your dash and the modify it so it reads the Chevy codes, this is for TACH ONLY all others work.)
Fuel Line Kit $190
Cruise Control $300 (This is where you have to get an aftermarket kit and add it on.)
Clutch Slave Kit $220
Wiring Harness $600
Gen I Chevy Clutch Kit $200
Billet Flywheel by McCloud $350
Electric Fan Kit $300
A/C setup there are two options:
Get the current relocation setup for $600
or
Dave from Novak is currently working on a new kit that will relocate the AC pump up to where the current relocation kit is, it will pull all the accessories in tighter, and it will allow you to use the Jeep power steering pump. This kit is not available yet, Dave is currently working on it, estimated price is as much as the current AC relocation kit or cheaper.
The things in Green are available from Novak, the two things that I left white are available from them, but it was recommended that I get them off ebay or locally.
For those of you playing along here is the total that little list above:
Total: $3,775 + Engine and Misc.
LsX Swap Links:
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/tj_swap.htm
http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/jeep ... arness.htm
Utljoldjeep's swap:
viewtopic.php?t=68617
Hemi:
I thought this swap might be cool because I might have a better chance at passing smog and the wiring might not kill me quite so much and things might play together a little nicer so I could reduce the use of adapters and such. It also stays in the Jeep family so legality might be easier. This could be either the 5.7 or the 6.1 doesn't matter to me really.
HP: 5.7 340, 6.1 425
Cost: TBD help a guy out if you've done this.
The pros: Stays along the Jeep family wiring supposedly plays nicer together, the power is decent and it's a HEMI.
The cons: Most likely the most expensive of all the options since it's a Chrysler product, the 5.7 is kind of a dog until you buzz it up in the rpms a bit. I called Burnsville Offroad today 9-17-10 and they said None of the TJ transmissions bolt to the Hemi. So then I called Burnsville Offroad and they said your options are Getrag 238 Manual or Automatic. The Getrag 238 will fortunately bolt to the 241OR, so that's good. The other problem is they told me you can not get cruise to work.
. With the AEV cruise does work, but again Automatic only.
Hemi Swap Links:
Pretty good detail of a DIY swap:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/adven ... ns-343741/
Hemi Wiring:
http://www.hotwireauto.com/?page=sales-tj
Hemi VS LsX at AEV:
http://forum.aev-conversions.com/showthread.php?t=1281
TJ swap harnesses:
http://www.hotwireauto.com/?page=sales-jeep
Bellhousing & Bolt pattern swap info:
http://www.v-eight.com/tech_forum/viewt ... f=46&t=820
Here is the info I have so far, as I find out more, I'll update what I have here. Can anyone help me complete this list more, what all does one need to buy to accomplish one of these swaps. I'm looking for first hand experience from people who have done them and can tell me what I'm missing, over looking and what problems they ran into or what they would do differently.
Quick story, 04 Rubi, 143k miles, 4.10s, stock mtrs, etc all stock pretty much. My rubi seems to be lacking in the power department and I'm a little paranoid that my engine is going to crap out on me. So this thread is my planning for failure thread :lildevil: .
When the current engine goes I'll likely want more power, so here are the options I believe I have in an attempt to remain Smog legal incase I move to one of those commi states. :rotflmao:
My goals:
Increase power by a reasonable amount
Appear and function as stock. (AC, electronics, gauges, etc.)
Perform swap in my own garage (No sending car off for a week and having it built)
Retain manual transmission and transfer case.
Stroker:
I was initially thinking this would be my best option since it's basically the same engine just bigger internally. For those who are familiar with the Jargon, 81-90 crank, 4.0 "long" rods, IC944 (Keith Black's) in the .030 flavor dished 21.7 cm, 24lb injectors, Comp Cam. Not too much machine work as far as milling the head down and all that, the goal is to run on pump gas. Different intake, exhaust, etc, double roller chain.
HP: Supposedly 260, realistically 240.
Cost: $1500
The pros: Same engine essentially, emissions should be pretty easy to pass since its visibly a 4.0. Comparatively cheap, bolts back in.
The cons: Might not be powerful enough to make the swap worth it.
LsX:
I like this option because the engines are great, they're cheap, novak has really streamlined the process with all their awesome goodies. I was thinking 5.3 but it would probably be a 6.0 just because they're the same size so why not? I heard a lot of the early swaps were a royal pain because of the wiring issues between the gauges, fuel pump, DBW and loss of cruise.
HP: LS6 6.0 385-400, LM7 5.3 285-295, LQ4 6.0 300-325, LQ9 6.0 345
Cost: TBD Awaiting info from Novak
The pros: Parts availability, oem and aftermarket or performance. Novak makes all kinds of trick parts to streamlining the swap from motor mounts to adapters to wiring harness to exhaust not to mention support.
The cons: Wiring/ DIY might be a pain in the ass. Ok, Just got off the phone with Novak 9-17-10. Here's the skinny, you'll need the following:
LsX Engine (These are the recommended ones: LM7 5.3 285-295HP, L33 5.3 310HP, LQ4 6.0 300-325HP, LQ9 6.0 345HP)
Motor Mounts $165
Radiator $400
Gen I Chevy Bellhousing $150
Gauges $300 (You send in your dash and the modify it so it reads the Chevy codes, this is for TACH ONLY all others work.)
Fuel Line Kit $190
Cruise Control $300 (This is where you have to get an aftermarket kit and add it on.)
Clutch Slave Kit $220
Wiring Harness $600
Gen I Chevy Clutch Kit $200
Billet Flywheel by McCloud $350
Electric Fan Kit $300
A/C setup there are two options:
Get the current relocation setup for $600
or
Dave from Novak is currently working on a new kit that will relocate the AC pump up to where the current relocation kit is, it will pull all the accessories in tighter, and it will allow you to use the Jeep power steering pump. This kit is not available yet, Dave is currently working on it, estimated price is as much as the current AC relocation kit or cheaper.
The things in Green are available from Novak, the two things that I left white are available from them, but it was recommended that I get them off ebay or locally.
For those of you playing along here is the total that little list above:
Total: $3,775 + Engine and Misc.
LsX Swap Links:
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/tj_swap.htm
http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/jeep ... arness.htm
Utljoldjeep's swap:
viewtopic.php?t=68617
Hemi:
I thought this swap might be cool because I might have a better chance at passing smog and the wiring might not kill me quite so much and things might play together a little nicer so I could reduce the use of adapters and such. It also stays in the Jeep family so legality might be easier. This could be either the 5.7 or the 6.1 doesn't matter to me really.
HP: 5.7 340, 6.1 425
Cost: TBD help a guy out if you've done this.
The pros: Stays along the Jeep family wiring supposedly plays nicer together, the power is decent and it's a HEMI.
The cons: Most likely the most expensive of all the options since it's a Chrysler product, the 5.7 is kind of a dog until you buzz it up in the rpms a bit. I called Burnsville Offroad today 9-17-10 and they said None of the TJ transmissions bolt to the Hemi. So then I called Burnsville Offroad and they said your options are Getrag 238 Manual or Automatic. The Getrag 238 will fortunately bolt to the 241OR, so that's good. The other problem is they told me you can not get cruise to work.
Hemi Swap Links:
Pretty good detail of a DIY swap:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/adven ... ns-343741/
Hemi Wiring:
http://www.hotwireauto.com/?page=sales-tj
Hemi VS LsX at AEV:
http://forum.aev-conversions.com/showthread.php?t=1281
TJ swap harnesses:
http://www.hotwireauto.com/?page=sales-jeep
Bellhousing & Bolt pattern swap info:
http://www.v-eight.com/tech_forum/viewt ... f=46&t=820
Here is the info I have so far, as I find out more, I'll update what I have here. Can anyone help me complete this list more, what all does one need to buy to accomplish one of these swaps. I'm looking for first hand experience from people who have done them and can tell me what I'm missing, over looking and what problems they ran into or what they would do differently.