Racing the TJ. What am I forgetting?

My biggest fear is the tires. I'm worried in a "race" situation, you'll be driving more aggressive than you normally would recreational wheeling. With those tires on the axles, just fear you'll be taking out shafts/joints quicker than you think. Are you "disqualified" if you break or do you have the option to repair and continue? I'd definitely carry spares if you have the ability/option to repair and continue. Depending on length/time of actual track, this may not be an option. BUT, if the others do the same as well and you are able to repair and finish, this can be the winning combo just to finish...

Hard to tell from the pic-is your cage adequate to their rulings???

I'm confused on your remark that "out here uptravel kills" yet also mention lowering the rig for lower cg and longer bumpstops. I can't think of anywhere I'd want to lower bumpstops intentionally and reduce uptravel. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your thoughts here? I'd want as much uptravel as possible with a tuned suspension for best ride/handling in the faster sections. Might PM bnine and get his opinions on this as well-he's done many of these race type deals and competitions and I believe-recently upgraded shocks alone that made him faster overall with only a better brand shock with better dampening, nothing more. He builds most all his stuff for maximum uptravel and the difference in faster times came from the same long travel, with better dampening suspension. Not sure if that makes sense-again, I could be totally misunderstanding you.

Truss or sleeve up front would help as well. I will be building my own when the time comes as I haven't seen anything that meets all the needs/desires I have with my current axle. There are a few options that would work well for most though.

Rig looks good btw! How do you like the pitbulls??? I'm kinda looking into dedicated off-road tires. These are generally really wide though and the only one I can find that isn't TOO terribly wide is the 315/75/16 radial rocker. Looking at it agsinst the Creepies and just sticking with my standard Toyos-all in the same size.

Best of Luck to you, have a great time and finish strong!

Best of Luck,

Mike

[quote='05TJLWBRUBY]
1. Are you "disqualified" if you break or do you have the option to repair and continue?

2. I'd definitely carry spares if you have the ability/option to repair and continue. BUT, if the others do the same as well and you are able to repair and finish, this can be the winning combo just to finish...

3. Hard to tell from the pic-is your cage adequate to their rulings???

4. Truss or sleeve up front would help as well.

5. Rig looks good btw! How do you like the pitbulls???

Mike[/quote]

Hey Mike-

1. No DQ for breakage. If you can repair, great, if you can't, you are awarded points for how much farther you made it than all of the guys who broke on the track. These races carry a 40% to 50% finish ratio. If you can fix it and finish in the 2 hour time frame, more power to you.

2. Currently I have spare chromolly front and rear shafts, spare hub, and spare ujoints.

3. Yes. My cage meets all standards.

4. Ok... I need to find some pics of front Rubi trusses. I just haven't seen any. Who makes them?

5. I'm currently running Pitbull Rocker radials. I LOVE THEM. I have run 37" bias Rockers and didn't like them very much at all. The radials are a completely different tire- they are a full inch taller, narrower, and grip every bit as well as the bias off-road and ride as smooth as glass on road. They are loud, but if you have a stereo you can cancel that out. I do 65mph in them just fine at 20psi (unbalanced on beadlocks) and then run them at 5psi on the trail with monster flex in the sidewall. Did I say I love these?

After running Geolanders, MT Xtremes, Trepadors, bias Rockers, and now the radial Rockers there is no comparison for me.

Tigger said:

I agree, truss the front or it will bend. You also risk bending the Cs at the end of the axle. Rubi axles are weak in the front and definitely not the best choice for what you are planning on doing.

And definitely a shock upgrade in the rear, as you will be bottoming out the right rear constantly.

Click to expand...

I have seen where JK guys are gusseting the C's, are TJ Rubi guys doing this as well? I have not seen it, but would certainly be open to it.

My Fox coilovers should be installed this weekend (went with 12" travel and 200/300 springs). I'm brand new to these, but did as much reading as I could find and this seemed to be the best setup for me (I think/hope). Once they are on, I'll replace my BDS monotube rears (12") with some Fox resi's to better handle the heat.

Can I sleeve the outer without having to cut off any brackets? Sorry if it's a dumb question. Might as well ask though.


Also, my jeep was 100% built for rocks and Moab. This racing thing is just for fun (something new). If I really get the bug, I'll build a dedicated ECORS race rig. Be it an H3 (multiple Baja wins, currently own), Vehi-cross (Dakar competitor), or TJ (familiar with capabilities). I am simply drawn to the versatility of the KOH rigs and have been slowly evolving mine in that direction. A much, much, cheaper version of that direction. :turn-l:

Good info on the pitbulls. That supports everything I"ve read on pirate as well, which is good to know. This will be a while out so no hurry for me on them, but still researching as well now so I know what I"m in store for later. Thanks very much, glad to hear it.

Sleeps posted a couple of the truss's above. Those were two I had remembered-Dons is pretty nice. There is another that looked OK, but I'm struggling to find it.

On the outter sleeve-using 3" DOM, you can do a part sleeve/stiffener by splitting lengthwise, then full welding the sleeve itself back to itself, over the tube, with various center cut holes to weld to the tube as well. Doing this way is as much, if not more work than cutting all the brackets off and re-welding them on. Benefit is 3" outter tube making new brackets easier, plus overall strengthened/stiffened tube to avoid bending. More work to cut around the current brackets, but it's doable-just have to split the DOM then fit around your current brackets.

I will be building my own truss and have been toying with the idea of either cutting all the brackets, doing a full 3" DOM sleeve and burning that to the tube, then the truss above (extra strengh will be needed for future suspension work 3-link, etc.) OR doing a split 3" DOM tube on the bottom, with the truss tieing into that lower 3" DOM section. Bottom half if you will on the under side of the tube welded in place, then the upper "truss" section welded on top, burned to that lower 3" section. Kind of sandwich it together if you will, with stronger lower axle section, tied to the upper truss. Hard to explain. I have a few ideas, trying to decide which will be most effective/best solution for me. This will likely be way overkill for most folks though and definitely a lot of work to fit together. Point being-if you can weld or know a good welder, for what you're doing, anything is possible-just a few other ideas. There aren't a lot of aftermarket Rubi kits for this type of thing so most will be custom stuff. Again, still have the outter C's/ball joints to worry about with that size tire.

I have a kit sitting on the shelf in the shop right now from Blaine. It's the tie-rod flip kit for my Currie steering setup, designed to flip the driver side tie rod to the TOP of the knuckle as opposed to the bottom to gain more clearance out of the rocks. The kit contains the inner wedge bushing thing that goes in after reaming out the knuckle, along with new swaybar link brackets. Because of the flip, the stock swaybar link brackets are cut off entirely. Blaine's new brackets are then burned in place and relocate the stock links roughly 1" higher overall, to allow fitment/clearance of the new flipped tie-rod. I mention this because this also strengthens your inner C. The bracket itself is welded vertical to the C on the forward face roughly 1/4" inboard to get a good weld on the outter most part of the C at the joint, then another "Wedge" or traingular gusset is welded vertical from that front most bracket out to the outter section of the upper C. Hard to explain. I have not yet installed mine-waiting for a few other parts to arrive before I tear it down totally and rebuild here as some of my changes will effect overall ride height. I don't want to cut the links down now, then find they're a bit too short once I do the other work. It will likely be a few weeks before I get this on. Blaine's kit was roughly $40 if I remember right, shipped-forget exactly. Not sure what steering you're running but with what you're doing, this MIGHT be a good idea as well for you. If you're interested or need more info, either get ahold of Blaine or PM me and I'll take care of it for you. It's surprisingly simple, yet surprisingly effective.

Another easy option to stiffen the lower C is a simple piece of DOM roll cage material burned to the tube itself and shaped to fit the lower section of the C. Hard to explain, just use some cardboard and trace that area with the DOM tube coming off the axle tube down to the C, and adjust/trim to fit, then burn it in. Very simple, very easy, just a bit of time and fitment and good protection. Just another idea from "scrap" likely laying around your shop.

Best of Luck,

Mike

WB is pretty short. Is there a rule for such short WB?
Truss is required as the Rub axle tubes will bend.
Yes your non res shock will fade and result in bad handling. Non res shocks are probably good for 15-30 minutes. Contact King or Fox for your application They wil tell you what tech data they need to make the shock selection. If you got the correct Fox's you will be happy.
What will you do to have competitive Hp? The I4 is way down on power.
Mighty large tires if your drivetrain/Hp and most importantly BRAKES. The full Van's upgrade would help, but a full hydroboost + Van's really is necessary for competition.
4.88s are not low enough for 37s/I4
IMO Diffs need sliders not fancy covers
In short you need to spend more $$ to be competitive or to finish.
Give it a shot and tell us how it went.
PaulW
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REDLYNER said:

I'm running Rubi axles, so I thought this site may have the best info to offer (strength or support wise).

I am seriously thinking about racing my TJ in an upcoming off-road race here in NC. It is a 2 hour endurance race that involves high speeds, hill climbs, ruts, whoops, and most important: rock crawling. It is basically a poor man's KOH. There are several classes (3) and our C-class will actually have KOH competitors in it. I will be in B-class, which is not quite as tough of a track as C.

Main build specs for racing include:

• Full cage
  WB stretch to 101"
  37" Pitbull Rockers on 17" Raceline beadlocks
  3.5" RE lift
  Front Fox coilovers
  MC racing seats and harnesses
  Belly up

Drivetrain looks like:

• Rubi 44's front and rear
  ARB's f/r
  Alloy 4.88's f/r
  Chromo shafts f/r
  Truss rear

Supporting upgrades:

• Ball joints feel tight
  Hubs feel tight (one is a new Timkin)
  U-joints feel tight

For the race, I was thinking about picking up some reservoir shocks for the rear, swithcing to some 2" lift springs (lower COG) and extended bumpstops (uptravel seems to be what kills rigs out here).

What other suggestions or parts am I not thinking of? Anything else you guys would do to bullet proof this thing up before racing?

Click to expand...

pwmac said:

WB is pretty short. Is there a rule for such short WB?
Truss is required as the Rub axle tubes will bend.
Yes your non res shock will fade and result in bad handling. Non res shocks are probably good for 15-30 minutes. Contact King or Fox for your application They wil tell you what tech data they need to make the shock selection. If you got the correct Fox's you will be happy.
What will you do to have competitive Hp? The I4 is way down on power.
Mighty large tires if your drivetrain/Hp and most importantly BRAKES. The full Van's upgrade would help, but a full hydroboost + Van's really is necessary for competition.
4.88s are not low enough for 37s/I4
IMO Diffs need sliders not fancy covers
In short you need to spend more $$ to be competitive or to finish.
Give it a shot and tell us how it went.
PaulW
==============

Click to expand...

I'm running Vanco's BBK, just didn't mention it. I also have the I6, so power is just fine.

This series has three classes, as mentioned above, I will be in Class B.

For this class you must say YES to 3 of the 4 criteria:

• No more than 2 tunable vehicle supporting shocks (air shocks, coil-overs, struts, etc.)
  
  Up to 40” tire
  
  No more than 1 locker
  
  No Engine swaps or engines with non-factory forced induction (turbo, etc.)

So I'll have to decide ifI'll keep the monotube rear shocks or undo the front locker.

murphy said:

first nice rig too nice that thing doesn't have a scratch on it. that undercarriage looks cleaner than my girlfriends [email protected]##$
seriously? racing on those 44s is asking just a little too much. with 37's the term bullet proof doesn't apply with these axles :rotflmao: unless your goal is to completely destroy em and just have fun . i guess you could build a truss for the front as mentioned that will help keep the tube's straight
you can do that when your doing your 8" stretch to hit that 101 wheel base
if you race you might want to tie that cage into your frame
oh yea nice BRA

Click to expand...

I guess my first post is confusing?

I'm already stretched to 101". Thanks for the heads up on the cage to frame tie-in. It is on my list, just haven't got around to it yet.

I've had great luck with the built 44's and 37"s. Two years, roughly 50 trail runs- including Area BFE, Pritchett, BtR, Harlan, KOH qualifier track at Harlan, and several private rock parks in the SE. Maybe that is where my confidence comes from? We'll find out soon enough!



So far it looks like the suggestions are:

• Cage to frame tie-in
  Gusset outer C's
  Truss front axle

REDLYNER said:

So far it looks like the suggestions are:

• Cage to frame tie-in
  Gusset outer C's
  Truss front axle

Click to expand...

Oh no bud, not even close. I was helping find the truss. You will bend if you air it out at all.

here is the truss murphy added to his, just another idea



Now, you have zero bracing on that stinger. If you endo, it will bend straight back. I would try and add a grill hoop, and tie to it, then tie it to your shock tower/spring perch or frame.

You don't have a cage which is insane for 37's. I see a few bars added here and there. the problem is I see a couple hundred in cage and around 6+K in wheels/tires/suspension. You seriously need to do something before you get hurt, I'm near begging you. Sure people have rolled and walked away with that style, but who guarantees that you're one of the lucky statistics? It's hard to tell from the pic, but does your A pillar go to the floor? I see no overhead bars at all.

I have right at $225 in this, and have a harness bar I haven't welded in yet. The life you save could be your own.




Yes your post is very confusing, you mention an RE lift but the pic appears to be clayton. You don't mention diff covers. Fuell cell or skid? seat crade or bolted to floor? you say full cage, but have minimal add ons. your harness bar looks to be mounted really low, which could harm your spine. you don't specify auto or standard, if standard maybe a short throw shifter. do you have catch cans for your fluids if you roll? What are the requirements on doors, safety nets, etc? Might consider ditching the windshield frame and tie wrapping some lexan to the cage, would be bad if it shattered. Do they have requirements for helmets/neck braces? I would consider RCVs if you're keeping the 44's. Better turning and less chance of breaking.


There's a ton more, but I might be losing you in my ramblings. It's a da** clean jeep, I'll give you that.