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Discussion Starter #1
I spent last night and this morning under the Rubi, checking out the status of my OME kit. I have driven it for a few weeks and wheeled it one weekend, I really worked the suspension with speed down the trails scouting, so expected a few things to have loosened/ readjusted themselves. This is what I found.

1) All shocks had to be pulled to reinstall the snaprings, they had come out.
2) The trackbar extension bracket had come loose again.
3) The passenger side spring is rubbing the bucket. Note that a quick measurement shows that factory install was miserable on these. The passenger bucket is 1/4" further back than the driverside
4) I removed the teraflex shock relocators because I was bottoming out the shocks. They now sit close to the lower spring perches, but I can live with it, until I do the lifted skids and have to rotate the rear pinion.
5) OME steering stabilizer was loose on the tie rod.

Note: That all of this was installed and torqued to the factory settings, originally and again now. To me loose was not at factory torque settings, i.e. 10ft/lbs low is loose. I will check it again after this next weekends wheelin. My biggest concern is the trackbar bracket, that was really loose again.

Ron
 

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What about using something like Loktight?
 
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Discussion Starter #4
I only use loc-tite as a last resort to solving a bolt problem, or where safety is so paramount that you use it for that extra precaution. You should be able to properly torque a bolt and have it stay tight without it. I have equipment that vibrates like crazy, and the bolts stay tight if they are properly torqued. With mine the only thing that bothers me is that I have now tightened the Trackbar bracket for the second time. The shocks will most likely be replaced with barpin eliminators if they continue to come apart. One of my JKS QD's is in without loc-tite, and is still tight, I wanted to experiment with it.

Ron
 

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regarding the coil spring bucket,

did you do anything to adress the front trackbar, ie install an adjustable front front trackbar or drill a new hole in the bracket?
Is your front axle off center?

by the way i just got my OME kit on yesterday, i went ahead and installed ORGS/JKS adjustable trackbars front and rear. I netted 1 3/4" front and 2" rear. The ride is much improved so far, just soaks everything up.

I still need to get it aligned though and give her the business offroad, i'm going to keep on eye on things

Thanks for posting your findings and BTW your website is great, i used it for referrence during the install
 
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Discussion Starter #6
I measured the front bucket and all the bracketry, I need to do it again so that I can post the measurements, since I didn't write them down. The passenger side bucket is located 1/4" back at a minimum. This puts the bucket against the front spring. The axle is located correctly, it is just the position of where they welded the bucket. Gotta love unquality control.

Ron
 

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Thanks for the heads up, since our OME's are about the same age. I did a tire rotation today and checked the bolts, but didn't look at the snap rings on the shocks. Everything else was tight so far...maybe I just need to shake it up off road some more. :D
 

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PBR Stitch said:
I only use loc-tite as a last resort to solving a bolt problem, or where safety is so paramount that you use it for that extra precaution. You should be able to properly torque a bolt and have it stay tight without it. I have equipment that vibrates like crazy, and the bolts stay tight if they are properly torqued. With mine the only thing that bothers me is that I have now tightened the Trackbar bracket for the second time. The shocks will most likely be replaced with barpin eliminators if they continue to come apart. One of my JKS QD's is in without loc-tite, and is still tight, I wanted to experiment with it.

Ron
Just curious why you would not want to use loctite off the bat. You talk about saftey... I would really condsider the front trackbar bracket a saftey issue. This is not meant to be a flame I was just wondering about you opinion on loc-tite... I really like to use it myself. Then again I just don't want have to retorque as I am lazy.... :wink:

Sean
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Sean - I work on the marine propulsion side of the house, and have found that at times loc-tite actually changes the torque of bolts as we put them in. I don't have an adversity to using it, just don't think I need to put it on every single thing I put in. To many times have I needed to take something apart that was loc-tited, and broke the part trying to get it out. I will loc-tite when it is needed or called for by the manufacturer. Usually those times the manufacturer is also looking at a safety/ liability side and just want to take the extra precaution. I haven't seen it used nor needed to use it when you can torque the bolt to the proper setting. I am the person who will only use a nylon lock nut once, and also checks the torque pre-load on those nuts to set the torque wrench to the proper setting (i.e. nyloc may have 10ft/lbs preload so you would need to set torque wrench to 110 to achieve 100 ft/lbs torque). Don't worry about flames in my direction, it is a valid question. Hope this helps clarify my side of the loc-tite vs. torque to hold things in place.

Ron
 

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There are many things that effect the torque of a bolt.....If the bolt is rusty the torque wrench will read a higher setting than the bolt really is and on the other side is you use something like antiseize compound then the bolt will be tighter than the torque wrench setting.
 

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PBR Stitch said:
Sean - I work on the marine propulsion side of the house, and have found that at times loc-tite actually changes the torque of bolts as we put them in. I don't have an adversity to using it, just don't think I need to put it on every single thing I put in. To many times have I needed to take something apart that was loc-tited, and broke the part trying to get it out. I will loc-tite when it is needed or called for by the manufacturer. Usually those times the manufacturer is also looking at a safety/ liability side and just want to take the extra precaution. I haven't seen it used nor needed to use it when you can torque the bolt to the proper setting. I am the person who will only use a nylon lock nut once, and also checks the torque pre-load on those nuts to set the torque wrench to the proper setting (i.e. nyloc may have 10ft/lbs preload so you would need to set torque wrench to 110 to achieve 100 ft/lbs torque). Don't worry about flames in my direction, it is a valid question. Hope this helps clarify my side of the loc-tite vs. torque to hold things in place.

Ron

Cool..........I have now been educated on loctite... I really didn't know that much about it except that it keeps me from having to climb under my JP every trip....Thanks for the info Ron.

Cheers
 

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PBR Stitch said:
I only use loc-tite as a last resort to solving a bolt problem, or where safety is so paramount that you use it for that extra precaution. You should be able to properly torque a bolt and have it stay tight without it. I have equipment that vibrates like crazy, and the bolts stay tight if they are properly torqued. With mine the only thing that bothers me is that I have now tightened the Trackbar bracket for the second time. The shocks will most likely be replaced with barpin eliminators if they continue to come apart. One of my JKS QD's is in without loc-tite, and is still tight, I wanted to experiment with it.

Ron
Is this why many of the bolts that come from the factory have an oem version of loc-tite on them???
 
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Discussion Starter #13
Most of what you see on the bolts from the factory are actually a checkpoint marking. Example would be your diff fill plugs. They are marked that way. None of the factory bolts I have pulled so far have any loc-tite on them. Some have sealer on them like the ones in the diff covers, but that is a byproduct of the sealer on the cover. If you have a specific bolt, let me know and I will go take a look at it and see what the factory did. Don't confuse loc-tite with the factory oval pinch nuts. Oval pinch nuts (there are other terms for these) are nuts that have basically been squashed to ovoid the hole. This works in areas that will be exposed to heat, of need a stronger nut than a nyloc. One thing that is forgotten when we torque these is that you have to measure the pre-load on them. Many times I have heard people complain that these come loose (Control arms are an example). I ask if they torqued to factory specs and I always get the "Yes I did..", then I ask if they adjusted for the preload on the nut. "Huh???" There torque is inevitably lower than factory because they forgot this point.

Ron
 

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What is the procedure for measuring or compensating for the preload?
 

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Vulcan said:
What is the procedure for measuring or compensating for the preload?

This is the million dollar question to this thread..... :)
 
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Discussion Starter #16
Stated torque measurements factor in the frictional force of clean parts, so make certain that everything is clean, and has no burrs. Measureing for Pre-load (frictional drag torque) is fairly easy in theory. The text book way assumes that you are screwing the nut onto a stationary bolt or thread, we all know this doesn't work, since our stuff is stationary. Here is the easiest way to do it. Jam the bolt head with a wrench against something so that it won't move. Don't hold it in your hand, since you will have some give there, and may get an inaccurate measurement. Take the nut and screw it on until it stops (hand tight), then take the torque wrench and turn the nut. Start with the lowest setting and work your way up if you are using a micrometer torque, if you are using a beam style, just watch the pointer, the point at which the nut turns is the pre-load (frictional drag torque). You then just add this to the torque you want to go to. i.e. 10ft/lb pre-load (frictional drag torque) + 100ft/lb torque setting = 110ft/lb setting on the torque wrench. There is another pre-load computation for bolts based upon tension/torsion/bolt stretch/ friction/ etc... I realy don't want to get into that side, since it really doesn't have a purpose in our application. For those of us with torque wrenchs, here is something that I forget to do also. Something to keep in mind when we use them.

Preloading a torque wrench is an important to the overall accuracy. It must be performed each time the torque wrench is used after periods of non-use or whenever torque direction is changed. There are several reasons for preloading your torque wrench. First, it will set internal components so that when force is applied, torque begins immediately with no internal settling. Second, it distributes lubrication to moving internal parts.

How to do it:
1. Set torque wrench between 50 percent and 100 percent of full scale.
2. Mount torque drive in a stationary fixture (i.e. socket welded to bench, vise).
3. Exercise the torque wrench three to five times in the direction you will be verifying.
4. Perform torque measurement.

Remember to store torque wrenches (click-type) in the low setting. Otherwise calibration will be needed at shorter intervals. You should have your torque wrenches calibrated yearly for accuracy, but it can be costly, so most of us don't do it. I admit that mine are not any longer. They were when I ran a calibration lab and had access to the equipment a few years ago. Kind of cool to check things out.

Ron
 

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That's good info....I think I have found a use for my old pointer style torque wrench...I have had it sitting on the shelf for the last ten years since I got my click style wrench.
 
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Discussion Starter #18
I still like my beam and use it just for these occasions. Gives you a good reference point. Besides I have gotten a few Wow, what is that thing statements when I pull it out.

Ron
 

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Hey that could be a new thread.....What's the most werid tool in your box? Post photos!
 

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Vulcan said:
Hey that could be a new thread.....What's the most werid tool in your box? Post photos!
Start the Thread Vulcan.......I would be interested to see some of the long time wheelers tools..
 
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