"E" range tires, Spefificly the MT/R & Toyo MT.

The MT/R's with Kevlar outperform both other tires you mention under most conditions. They are a significant improvement over the original MT/R's, to the point where anybody who has not experienced the Kevlar version has an obsolete opinion about them. Even though they are load range "E", they are more comfortable than many "D"'s because there are no longer steel sidewalls or tread belts, only Nylon and Kevlar.

I have one more suggestion. The wider LT305/70R16's are my tire of choice. The Kevlar tires have more flexible (and more puncture resistent) sidewalls than the original MT/R's. The 1" of additional width of the 305 vs. the 285 allows you to air down more, both offroad for better performance, and onroad for more comfort. The 305's are also 1lb lighter than the 285's.

If you are ever in dead sand or powder snow, the wider tires have better floatation. On dry pavement they put more rubber on the road and braking is modestly better. I have never gotten them to hydroplane in puddles at highway speeds, either.

You will need another 1/2" of clearance to avoid rubbing with the greater width. If your tires annoy the law now, they will also stick out another 1/2" and this will get worse. About the only criticism I have about the Kevlars is that when you park them hot after extended highweay travel, the next day they will be flat-spotted until they warm up, and thump for the first mile or so. The old MT/R's did this as well, but the Kevlar version may actually be worse - I am certain it is no better.

The key word in Gary's reference to snow is "powder".

Since Gary mentioned the snow I will say this.

Scoob, I replaced my MTZ's (45K+) with MTR/k. Everyone certainly has their preference and driving styles but I can tell you the MTR/K can be VERY scary in the CO snow. The voids do not clear easily in wet conditions. If there is hard packed ice conditions underneath the treads can break free on the gentlest of turns, even in 4hi.

I will get slightly off of Scoob's subject for minute and just add the following. I had previously contemplated posting some testing we did comparing the MTR/k and the Duratrac but decided against it.

A brief description of some certainly unscientific testing we tried. Multiple drivers were involved and we switched vehicles to try and negate differences in vehicles. Tires compared were Duratrac 33/12/50/15 and MTR/k 285/75/16. We used a paved uphill street that was not plowed after about 6" of snow. It was subjected to -0 temps for 2 days with daily traffic. The 3rd day reached 48. The street was a mess.

Before anyone says something like - anyone that thinks an offroad mud tire will be good in the snow is an idiot - I agree. I'm just throwing this out there because I have read reviews stating the MTR/k's are good in winter conditions. My experience is contrary.

If I was looking for an all around DD tire with probably better performance than an AT with good winter handling. I would have no problem recommending the Duratrac. In fact, I'm giving serious consideration to getting some studded Duratrac's for winter driving.

Back to the topic.

And yes. I can definitely tell my E rated MTR's are stiffer than my D rated MTZ's. On the trail I let out more air than I did with my MTZ's to get the best performance. Do the MTR/k's perform well on the trail? Hec yes.

By the way. Kiwi Black Leather Dye works well on covering up the white letters. It just requires re-applying.

Scoob said:

Excellent input Gary. Thank You

I was actually thinking about switching to the 305's as well. What back spacing are you running yours with? The rims I am looking at are a 4.5" BS I know this wont be a problem with 285's but I am not sure that would be the case with the wider tires.
Now if I could just get over the white letters out on the GY's. Do they make something to hide the letters with, maybe a sharpie?

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I run Moabs with 1.25" spacers, effectively 3.75" BS. At full steering lock, the 305's come within 3/16" of rubbing the swaybar on one side, about 3/8" on the other side, with a 2" lift and no adjustable front trackbar. With 4" BS I think you could probably make it work with a single washer under the steering stops. There is no problem in the rear.

The downside to the wider tires is more drag at highway speeds, due to the wider stance. But with my wheel spacers and wider tires, the track is 5" wider than stock, which has restored a lot of the cornering ability lost with the lift. Plus I like the look of them, and they work really well in the rocks. As for mikel's comments about them not being ideal in the wet snow or mud, I agree. For the conditions he described or even glare ice, I carry cleated tire chains for all four tires. They work better than any tire I ever used in wet snow, ice, packed snow, and even mud - which I seldom venture into anyway. So I pick my tires for the conditions found in the Western states in the Summer, and the MT/R's are the best all-around tire I have ever owned on 9 Jeeps.

I mounted mine black sidewalls out, and just didn't worry about the white letters on the inside. If you look, there are a few traces of the blue gunk still left on those.

I agree with Mikel above and know several folks with the new MT/R kevlar now. They are NOT the ideal choice of tire around our parts. The Toyo MT however is very TOUGH to beat and I'd echo Kaisers comments about this tire here-swapping out his likes for the MT/R kevlar.

I run the Toyos on my trailer and have a set coming for the Jeep-all of which are 255/85/16's. I will be also adding a set of 35" trail tires only at a later date on beads. Tire choice for those will be the Pitbull rocker, Maxxis creepy OR the Toyo MT. The Toyo is an excellent tire that is VERY tough to beat in about any terrain. I've not run the Pits or creepies but know guys who do/have. It will be a tough decision for me when that time comes and honestly will likely be between the pits and Toyos for the 35's simply because the maxxis are so expensive. Size will be 315/75/16 for those.

On the 255's-I LOVE this size overall. This is an excellent size for both on and off-road use and has not limited me in the slightest of anywhere I've run. My ONLY reason for going with 35's is they'll be trail only and provide a LITTLE bit more clearance, that is all. The 255's are a true 33" tire and measure out at 33.5" tall new, and about 10" wide. With proper gearing, fuel mileage, economy, performance, power, etc. is excellent and not hindered in the least. Again, with proper gearing. I run 4.88's with my 6 speed rubi with these tires and LOVE it.

As you mentioned the camper-I regularly pull a 5x10 trailer behind the Jeep, mostly loaded to max capacity of the rig. Handles great. My current off-road trailer build is setup like the Jeep, but heavy and will be about the same weight loaded as the 5x10 in a smaller box size of which is 50" inside x 72" inside, and about 32" deep roughly, soon to add another 14" in lid. The trailer in it's current form tows far better than my 5x10.

Now to the tires-Toyo is actually a large tire company and is Les Schwabs biggest brand. They are very well known for QUALITY and take very little weight to balance out. One of my trailer tires has 1/2 oz weight on it on the factory Moab rims. I have run MANY sets of Toyo car tires on all my past commuter cars. Toyo are the ONLY tire I will run on any of the cars-and are currently on my wife's '07 Subaru Outback as well. The MT Toyo is excellent, excellent quality, excellent life and excellent performance. Don't let the E load range fool you. It is heavy, but because it runs so true and balances so easy, it won't play havoc on your front end like other lesser quality tires do-like the old style BFG MT for instance-of which I am currently running now... They weigh a few pounds more, but not a lot. Check your weights again for the 255 as compared to the 285 you are looking at-I THINK the 255 is actually a bit lighter than that, but could be wrong. It's been a while since I looked at the shorter/wider weights. My new set will be on very soon-hopefully within a week or two if things go well. Looking forward to it. They track very well on the highway, better in snow than either the old MT/Rs or the BFG's and when siped, are even better. I just really like this tire. Off-road in our terrain here, perform very well.

Oh-and about the national backorder-just have to know where to look... :lildevil:

Best of Luck,

Mike

mikel said:

The key word in Gary's reference to snow is "powder".

Before anyone says something like - anyone that thinks an offroad mud tire will be good in the snow is an idiot - I agree. I'm just throwing this out there because I have read reviews stating the MTR/k's are good in winter conditions. My experience is contrary.

Click to expand...

We have had very good luck with both the toyo, and the mtr/k in winter conditions up here.

The key is air pressure. Always air pressure. Atemping to gauge winter offroad tire performance of any mud tire using anything more then 8 psi c rated, or 4 psi E rated is like pissing up a rope. Absolutely useless.

Onroad duratracs are a good tire. Offroad, we have found no advantage to them compared to the mtr and toyo. In fact, we have one club member that is dropping his "winter" duratracs in favor of just running the toyo.

We had a winter campout/wheeling trip this year that consisted of multiple hill climbs in 2 plus feet of snow during temps of -20 degree C. The only user not to get pulled, or winched for the entire trip was the only open open tj, and he was running walker beadlocks, and toyo's at 3 psi..........................

Aside from air pressure, the only other major deciding factor in winter performance with mud tires is compound. If really cold temperatures are an issue in your area, you need a tire compound that is soft enough not to go hard below -10 C.

Some tires that are problematic for freezing are older bfg muds, all Interco except trxus and iroc, and cooper sst's. Those are a few to watch out for.