[Wildrat]

I try to have a large selection of bolts on hand as well. It's the fine thread ones that typically get me. if I think about it, I'll keep notes of what bolt sizes are used on the jeep and only cary those. Ha, that will never happen.

On the brakes, no booster. The LS with the CAM probably won't get me enough vacuum at idle. I looked at doing a hydro boost, and actually bought one that may be for sale soon... But ended up going all manual brakes, the pedal has a 10:1 ratio vs 5-7 or so, so should have good feel. If it does not work all that good, I'll do something else. But for now all manual.

Just laid out the electrical parts that need to go in the jeep, it's a box of parts larger than a laundry basket. Should be fun time figuring all that out.

Off to work.

You need an aircraft electrician friend.

 

[inline6]

You need an aircraft electrician friend.

Any friend that can do something besides drink my beer and watch and complain its not done yet and has no idea what goes into something like this.

Put the origami dash back in. Now trying to figure out where the radio, GMRS, HVAC controls, dash vents, display, and if I need any more switches or a switch pro or similar device. So that means I need to relook at my wiring diagram again. There is also a space in the dash for an iPad mini. It's tempting, but not sure what is what I will do. It would make Nav easier though I guess. One more thing to buy and hope they don't change the shape next version.

 

[inline6]

thinking I have things laid out, but need to make sure I didn't miss anything I need to make holes for. I would really like to drill once and be done with the layout and not make a mistake I need to recover from.

Looks like the HVAC and Radio will live on the center of the dash, no big surprise. It will still leave the big hole for the iPad mini if I so decide, or just a blank plate. The top two arts and crafts cut outs. The radio is from SSV works and is a side by side radio with bluetooth, simple waterproof and effective.

The third item is a GMRS radio

Below the radio is the winters shifter and tcase lever, side by side. Should be fine, the tcase lever is quite long, I may figure out a solution to shorten it.

Then the long part of the center console is up for grabs. Guess I will need some cup holders.

The sides of the dash center have cut outs for typical Cigarette lighter sized accessories. I need to get another one for the passenger side, USB A and C.

Not to be outdone or forgotten, I still need to modify the transmission skid for my application. Its about 4 inched to long, not sure why and not sure what end I will shorted or if I am going to section it to meet my needs.

All that said, time to go re do the wiring harness diagram, which looks something like this laid out on 8 sheets of paper, thinking this is a few revisions old. Triple and double checking everything before cuts are made or new parts are ordered.

 

[FLLJ]

On the brakes, no booster. The LS with the CAM probably won't get me enough vacuum at idle. I looked at doing a hydro boost, and actually bought one that may be for sale soon... But ended up going all manual brakes, the pedal has a 10:1 ratio vs 5-7 or so, so should have good feel. If it does not work all that good, I'll do something else. But for now all manual.

Not trying to spend your money but maybe this will give you some ideas if the manual doesn't work out.

https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/631250/10002/-1

 

[inline6]

On the brakes, I should be good with the manual or non assisted brakes. The brake lever is set up with more leverage than the normal brake lever, 10:1 vs 7:1 or lower. This was the recommendation and seemed like a good choice. The other reason for manual was just packaging. The more stuff up there on the firewall the more interference with other things like the engine, shock hoop, and all the rest.

@FLLJ , the electric one is interesting, but yep not sure I need to spend more cash there either. But if needed a decent choice. Not sure I want another thing to plum, mount and eire up.


Lots of time with the wire harness diagram last night. I re drew everything and re imagined where things were goin to go. It's been an interesting part of the project and almost as much of a rabbit hole and the 3 link calculator. Hoping I have picked up good tips from all the reading and YouTube videos I have done. Should get that flushed out this morning, get some measurements, then figure out what I don't have and make an order. This will be mostly heat shrink tubing and boots. I don't need more of this than I need. The tubing starts at over 2 bucks a foot to over 8 bucks. Then the boots start at 12 or so. I really don't need a spool of that stuff around, they start at 400 or so. Not that I won't have rolls of wire sitting around, but that is a bit more useful than this very specific heat shrink tubing. Besides the tubing, I need to make sure I have all the connectors as well. I will probably go and plug everything in and mount what ever other sensors that are not mounted now to make sure. Basically one big electrical mock up. Most of the harness may need to wait to be built until I determine the number of wires in the route and the amount of heat shrink needed to do that section. Basically how big will the bundle be and can I slip the heat shrink over the bundle for said shrinkage.

A subset of the heat shrink tubing description
Specially formulated for optimum high-temperature fluid resistance, and long term heat resistance. Resistant to aviation and diesel fuels, hydraulic fluids and lubricating oils.
It is also well suited for the demands of motorsport cable harnesses.

This was a great watch and series of videos on the harness process

In another video he goes on to build a 13K harness, I am not gong there. But it is an interesting rabbit hole, enjoy if you have time and enjoy that kind of stuff.

 

[johncanfield]

My nav tablet was on a gooseneck mount which was incredibly handy.

 

[Wildrat]

On the brakes, I should be good with the manual or non assisted brakes. The brake lever is set up with more leverage than the normal brake lever, 10:1 vs 7:1 or lower. This was the recommendation and seemed like a good choice. The other reason for manual was just packaging. The more stuff up there on the firewall the more interference with other things like the engine, shock hoop, and all the rest.

@FLLJ , the electric one is interesting, but yep not sure I need to spend more cash there either. But if needed a decent choice. Not sure I want another thing to plum, mount and eire up.


Lots of time with the wire harness diagram last night. I re drew everything and re imagined where things were goin to go. It's been an interesting part of the project and almost as much of a rabbit hole and the 3 link calculator. Hoping I have picked up good tips from all the reading and YouTube videos I have done. Should get that flushed out this morning, get some measurements, then figure out what I don't have and make an order. This will be mostly heat shrink tubing and boots. I don't need more of this than I need. The tubing starts at over 2 bucks a foot to over 8 bucks. Then the boots start at 12 or so. I really don't need a spool of that stuff around, they start at 400 or so. Not that I won't have rolls of wire sitting around, but that is a bit more useful than this very specific heat shrink tubing. Besides the tubing, I need to make sure I have all the connectors as well. I will probably go and plug everything in and mount what ever other sensors that are not mounted now to make sure. Basically one big electrical mock up. Most of the harness may need to wait to be built until I determine the number of wires in the route and the amount of heat shrink needed to do that section. Basically how big will the bundle be and can I slip the heat shrink over the bundle for said shrinkage.

A subset of the heat shrink tubing description
Specially formulated for optimum high-temperature fluid resistance, and long term heat resistance. Resistant to aviation and diesel fuels, hydraulic fluids and lubricating oils.
It is also well suited for the demands of motorsport cable harnesses.

This was a great watch and series of videos on the harness process

In another video he goes on to build a 13K harness, I am not gong there. But it is an interesting rabbit hole, enjoy if you have time and enjoy that kind of stuff.

I like electrical/mechanical things. I find enjoyment in it. I was a non-beer drinking, non-complaining, doer, not a watcher aircraft electrician on B-52's, 135 aircraft, F-16's, and, A-10's.
Marine stores have good heat shrink, and heat shrinkable terminals/connectors etc. at reasonable prices. I usually buy my stuff at online marine stores. West Marine is a rip-off. I also only drink specific British beer, not American swill.

 

[FLLJ]

Marine stores have good heat shrink, and heat shrinkable terminals/connectors etc. at reasonable prices. I usually buy my stuff at online marine stores.

I used to get my supplies here (formerly GenuineDealz) not sure how they are now with the name change. Quick look showed US made.

Custom Cable and Wire | Marine Grade Cable and Wire Products

Custom Cable and Wire is home to custom made battery cables and the best quality US made UL 1426 marine grade wire products for your boat, rv, trailer, auto, solar, atv needs. Next day shipping available on most orders.s

www.customcableusa.com

 

[Wildrat]

I used to get my supplies here (formerly GenuineDealz) not sure how they are now with the name change. Quick look showed US made.

Custom Cable and Wire | Marine Grade Cable and Wire Products

Custom Cable and Wire is home to custom made battery cables and the best quality US made UL 1426 marine grade wire products for your boat, rv, trailer, auto, solar, atv needs. Next day shipping available on most orders.s

www.customcableusa.com

I used them also, they had good prices when I used them.

 

[inline6]

I have a bunch of "generic" heat shrink, not quite the same specs. As I went down the rabbit hole, Raychem DR-25 became the choice for heat shrink for me. Then the follow up same material in boots to go over the connectors. Then epoxy to seal the boot, connector and heat shrink for a water proofing or at least way more resistance to water intrusion.

I accounted for all but one color being used in the harness from this pile. I will have plenty of extra, the larger spools ended up cheaper than shorter runs custom cut from other suppliers, vs a wholesale source. I'll be able to make plenty of mistakes.

and of course the helper, he usually has a bed on the table and was not happy with me for moving it.

Got the color code figured out, lengths all figured out. Today its connector time, making sure I have all I need and pins as well, but the devil is in the detail. I hope I planned correct a year or so ago when I bought them. Then another order to get the heat shrink, boots and epoxy and what ever else I think I will need. Onto the cutting of wires and taking names, making labels for everything. the brother touch should do well, if not I'll buy a pre made set of labels to heat shrink to the wires. Thinking labeling what is what will be good. But may not be needed if I do the harness correct and the connector won't go anyplace but the planed place.

Slow but steady progress, trying t plan once and build once. I know I have forgotten things as well.

 

[johncanfield]

Years ago I had a tour of Mooney Aircraft and noticed how they make their wiring harnesses. They had about 20 feet of 4x8 sheets of plywood lined up with pegs at various lengths for wiring drops. So the main trunk went left to right with a bunch of drops (as I call it) for various sensors or whatever. You've probably seen similar. Each leg or drop had wire number/color/etc.

 

[Mouse]

Years ago I had a tour of Mooney Aircraft and noticed how they make their wiring harnesses. They had about 20 feet of 4x8 sheets of plywood lined up with pegs at various lengths for wiring drops. So the main trunk went left to right with a bunch of drops (as I call it) for various sensors or whatever. You've probably seen similar. Each leg or drop had wire number/color/etc.

Thats how the Air Force taught me to do it many years ago.

It warms my heart seeing wiring being done right. I have a variety of different wire, color and gauges, but I need to pick up my game to be in this thread

 

[inline6]

If I was going to do multiple harnesses for a jeep, I would make a peg board as well. But ill just use the jeep as the peg board.

While planing yesterday turned out that I didn't order the coil connectors. On a LS there is a coil harness that is separate from the "main" harness, oops. I could or torn one apart for the connectors, but new would be better.

I cut what feels like 500 feet of wire yesterday, it's a tedious process. Each of the roles is 500 feet and one role at least a third of it is gone. I'll figure out the total distance used once I get it all pulled and have the spreadsheet updated. Not sure it will matter, but it's how I am designing and keeping track of what goes where. More to be done today then ill lay it out in the jeep at a peg board.

Yesterday I also measured the amp draw on tail lights, fog lights, headlights.... Just making sure I have the correct size wire for the application. Withe the LED headlights only pulling 2 amps, the wire size is not that large. I think I will end up doing home runs to all the lighting, vs daisy chain the lighting. It will allow for a smaller wire and think smaller overall compared to the stock bundle of wires.

one other area of design that just came to mind is the read brake lights that are also the rear turn signals. I need to figure out if the PDM will allow me to control this function with an if then statement. I think it can, just need to program it. If brake pressure then on, if brake pressure and left turn, then flash. I think it will work, if not I may need to figure out something else.

I need to do more amp testing as well, vs throwing large wire at stuff that does not need it. The rabbit hole continues.

 

[inline6]

All the Air Force comments are great, only did a few years.

I only had to worry about wiring on the MDF in the comm room every once in a while. Usually just working on the communications electronics in the SCIF or other fun areas. My only interaction with the flying part was when I was part of a FAC group in Korea and had to be able to deploy off the hill, but we never did that. I did some work on STS 27 back in the day as well, that was kind of fun. I don't bring all that stuff up to much any more, not allot of people really get it.

I have done quite a bit of telecom wiring as well, think the old PBX system and now ethernet patch panels and such things. Dressing out wires is a skill that I never totally learned, but looking at others work I may of mastered, ha. It's all in personal satisification on a project, if you want it or don't care. I usually cared more about how my work looked and how it ws going to be able to be services later. I also did a large for on display system for a company I use to work for. We had all our electronics on display that we built, think channel banks and emerging data equipment. I was a bit meticulous getting it put together, but it was on display for all our potential customers and was on point. That back in my Silicon Valley days on the early 90s. Now I just talk about those things for work, but have a good base around it and could probably do better than some of them doing it now.

But I digress, time to feed my helpers and get to it.

 

[johncanfield]

I was a 362x4 in the Air Force - telephone equipment installer repairman. We did it all as far as outside plant except for cable splicing. We were trained on small key systems and there was a control tower comm system we were responsible for. In 'Nam I was in the comm control center, all hands-on telephone work was done by a contractor.

 

[inline6]

something like 360xx, but the short term was crypto. I had some interesting things to do, most of the time I was not required to wear the uniform, actually civilian cloths assignment. I was mostly in space com, way before there was the new space force. You can probably draw some conclusions around that.

it was a good start. I tested very high on the entrance test and had all but like 2-3 jobs I didn't qualify for. They were also right, I would not of been a good linguistics person, I worked with some of them and not my thing. I don't recall the other couple I didn't qualify for. My dads good friend was retired AF and helped me pick the job. Best career help I have ever received. That initial training and my skills have done me well.

on the jeep topic:
Got most of teh wiring cut and am now doing the planning of where to do the breakouts. I may not try the concentric wiring, mostly due to the actual short runs where it may be harder for me to learn that vs having it done in minutes. Or I may do a left bank run and a right bank run, that might be the best option. Design decisions...

Things to consider, signal grounds and power for sensors and coils. Do I home run them from a splice at the ECU, or out farther at breakout down the line. It's a decision that may result in using 3 more feet of wire per sensor. I think I am just going to home run the wires, not that much more wire for the simplicity and current carrying capacity of single runs. At least that is what I have in my head.

Time for a quick lunch then bundle up some wires and take some measurements of the bundle size for heat shrink and connector boots. This rabbit hole I need to not only know the connector dimensions, but also the dimension of the wire bundle going to the connector. That way I can order a boot that will conform to those actual dimensions.

No one will ever really notice I did all this, but it's kind of fun. Good mental and physical challenge.

Another top tip, clean out the tub of metal shavings before you do a bunch of measurements and use magnets to hold the tape measure. Clean up may be next actually.

back to that lunch I mentioned above.

 

[johncanfield]

I scored pretty well on the AFQT which is why I would wound up in a technical AFSC (job.) When I went in, there was no picking a career field as I recall but I had three years of electronics training in high school (vocational program) so maybe that did prime the pump.

Back to the thread - I do like the idea of home running the wiring. When we would pre-wire a building we always did home runs with 25 pair cable.

 

[inline6]

I think I may be obsessed with this process.

This needs another outer run of wires to be done. The blue wires are control wires, the yellow fill to even out the bundle. This is the transmission harness, or will be.

I really need to clean up the garage as well.

 

[inline6]

the completed Transmission harness.

there are 2 18 gauge power wires as the core, I twisted them together with a drill for the main strand. 6 blue for outputs, 3 gray for sensor grounds, 7 green inputs, 6 purple filler outside and 4 yellow filler inside. It's 10mm or .4 inches for a size reference. The number I will use for ordering the heat shrink. Overall I started out with about 10 feet of wire and ended up with about 8 feet of usable cable, but it will probably go down to 6 or less depending on how and where I route the harness.

Thinking it was about 2-3 hours of manipulating the wires, so not too bad I guess for a first time. I found it easier to do about 5 wires in a group, they got less tangled up. I had to go back and add one more filler wire on the outside bundle to make it snug. It might could use another, ill decide when I get a few more done.

This ability for the wire to act like it's not in a bundle is what this is all about. It has almost the same flexibility as the stand alone wires.

 

[Wildrat]

Pretty! Are you going to put the high heat, abrasion resistant, expandable braid over it? The twisting of the wire will help with cross-talk, if it were to be an issue. I had to forget a lot of aircraft electrical techniques when I stopped working aircraft. My original harnesses would look nice, and professional, but very much over done. Did you run any extra wiring in the harnesses for just in case incidents, or needs?
My AF AFSC was 42399 or 2A696 now, but I have left those days well behind, and rarely look to the sky when I hear a jet.