The best 2 pieces of advice I can give you.


1. Order the sliders from Dave at Rokmen

2. Get bare steel, clean it, prime it, then paint it.

Nothing wrong with the powdercoat, but good old primer and paint will be easier in the long run to maintain.

 

I am getting ready to make an order from Rokmen for some side protection myself - glad this post came up.

 

I bought a set of Jeeperman rock rails unpanited. They had a lot of oil on them and well not fun to clean and paint. If I had it to do over I would pay for the powdercoat.

By the time you pay for solvent, primer, and paint you will probably spend about $15. For $35 more I could have gotten the posdercoat.

If you do buy the unpained get 2 or 3 cans of carburetor cleaner and use that to was then down with first then follow up with lacquer thiner and paper towels.

Bill Tolle
05 Rubicon
04 Liberty

If you love offroading and want the trails to stay open please join Blueribbon Coalition.
"Preserving our natural resources FOR the public instead of FROM the public"
http://sharetrails.org/

 

powdercoat is so much better than any paint job we can do. It lasts longer and is much more durable, I don't care what anyone says.

 

powdercoat is so much better than any paint job we can do. It lasts longer and is much more durable, I don't care what anyone says.

it may be more durable but it will look like ARSE if you live in a muddy area. It will get scratched up and UGLY looking. Especialy where you step on the rockers to get into the jeep.


If you decided to get powerder coat, just keep in mind you WILL have to paint them in a year or less.

Pete

 

I just installed some Shrockworks sliders yesturday and I honestly think the Jeep will break in half before these sliders give. Very happy with the sliders and the underneath coverage is excellent. The install was easy and the backing plates for the floor were all marked and lined up perfect. Couldn't be happier.

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underside

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powdercoat is so much better than any paint job we can do. It lasts longer and is much more durable, I don't care what anyone says.

hmmmm, what about a Toys By Troy powdercoat job?

 

powdercoat is so much better than any paint job we can do. It lasts longer and is much more durable, I don't care what anyone says.

I have to disagree with you on this, Powdercoat will never have the adhesion to steel, or the corrosion resistance like wet paint. Itis due to the liquid dwell time during the cure. Powder coat is a solid and melts in an oven, the problem with this is it spends very little time in the liquid phase, since almost as soon as it melts it starts curing. This prevents it from flowing and evtering every small void in the steels surface. A liquid paint will do this.

Another thing is powdercoat needs alot of surface preparation, and if there is anything on the metal (oil, dust, grease...)it willcome off in sheets. If you prepare the metal surface the same, a good alkyd will have better adhesion and give superior corrosion resistance.

Another problem with powdercoat is since it does not flow like a liquid paint, they add flow and mar additives (silicones, waxes...) that go to the surface of the paint and give it a smooth look. These additives will not let other paint stick to the powdercoat.

If you have any doubt of this ask Jerry (Medic), it took him 10 times longer to get my paint off my bumper than the powdercoat beside it.

 

I also went with the Shrockworks sliders, easy install and sturdy as hell. I chose unfinished and painted myself with a good quality spray that I can touch up anytime. Just getting in and out of the Jeep has shown some wear marks, and I've already scuffed them some on the trail also, just took a few seconds to touch up. If your Jeepin' style requires rocker protection, then the finish on there is going to suffer, and paint is easier to fix then powdercoating.

Good luck,
Mark

 

x3 on the shrockworks. they are built like fort knox. i got mine bare and painted it with black imron( industrial paint). i also know from experience that once powdercoating is chipped or cracked, you cant get it touched up. yes you can paint it, but it wont keep it from cracking off. regular paint is much easier to touch-up...
just my .02

 

powdercoat is so much better than any paint job we can do. It lasts longer and is much more durable, I don't care what anyone says.

You are correct. Powder coat all the way. I can't believe anyone would say that paint adheres better to steel. B.S. And the other argument is that it's hard to touch up powerder coat. Ever heard of flat black paint? Works fine on powerder coat. Doesn't adhere well to the coat, but adheres just fine to the scratches...

And on sliders, Jeeperman all the way. They are simply awesome if you want to go with a frame mounted rocker.

 

powdercoat is so much better than any paint job we can do. It lasts longer and is much more durable, I don't care what anyone says.

You are correct. Powder coat all the way. I can't believe anyone would say that paint adheres better to steel. B.S. And the other argument is that it's hard to touch up powerder coat. Ever heard of flat black paint? Works fine on powerder coat. Doesn't adhere well to the coat, but adheres just fine to the scratches...

And on sliders, Jeeperman all the way. They are simply awesome if you want to go with a frame mounted rocker.

I stand by my above analysis of powdercoat, after all I have spent the last 18 years as a coatings chemist and have formulated and tested every type of paint including powdercoat.

Go to a Benjamin Moore or Sherwin Williams or any other store that sales industrial maintenance paints and buy a 2 part epoxy primer and a 2 part acrylic urethane topcoat, and you will have the best paint system possible to protect steel. After all this is what goes on your car afterall, not powdercoat. There must be a reason for that.

 

Elwarpo, I know I for one would like to see a quick write-up of the exact process you suggest for painting steel - I plan to be buying some sliders within the next month and you 18 years of experience beats my rattle-can days in the military.

I see on your post above the types of primer and top coat to get, but what should you clean the metal with? Also, what should you apply the primer and paint with, how many coats per and what is the wait time between actions? Also is there a working temperature range?

Thanks a ton.

 

Elwarpo, I know I for one would like to see a quick write-up of the exact process you suggest for painting steel - I plan to be buying some sliders within the next month and you 18 years of experience beats my rattle-can days in the military.

I see on your post above the types of primer and top coat to get, but what should you clean the metal with? Also, what should you apply the primer and paint with, how many coats per and what is the wait time between actions? Also is there a working temperature range?

Thanks a ton.

X2..

Yea, I'd love to see a good how-to on painting sliders..

 

powdercoat is so much better than any paint job we can do. It lasts longer and is much more durable, I don't care what anyone says.

You are correct. Powder coat all the way. I can't believe anyone would say that paint adheres better to steel. B.S. And the other argument is that it's hard to touch up powerder coat. Ever heard of flat black paint? Works fine on powerder coat. Doesn't adhere well to the coat, but adheres just fine to the scratches...

And on sliders, Jeeperman all the way. They are simply awesome if you want to go with a frame mounted rocker.

I stand by my above analysis of powdercoat, after all I have spent the last 18 years as a coatings chemist and have formulated and tested every type of paint including powdercoat.

Go to a Benjamin Moore or Sherwin Williams or any other store that sales industrial maintenance paints and buy a 2 part epoxy primer and a 2 part acrylic urethane topcoat, and you will have the best paint system possible to protect steel. After all this is what goes on your car afterall, not powdercoat. There must be a reason for that.

Hehehehe...I was waiting for this response....I knew Elwarpo was one of those smart chemests or engineers or somthing :rotflmao:

 

A few points.

1. Sorry but Mike (Elwarpo) knows more about paint and powdercoat than anybody else posting in this thread. Listen to him, he knows his stuff.

2. There is no powdercoated product I have purchased that has held up on my Jeep. Durango, TBT (LMFAO) Rokmen. They all are abused, and go through winter and look like crap in a year.

3. I took Mike's advice when Jerry built my front bumper, painted it according to his instructions with a paint he actually made for me. It has held up far and away 100% better than anything else.

So.......no more powdercoat on anything for me. I learned the hard way.

 

Ok here is how to prepare metal.

The most important part is the pre paint surface preparation.

First the safery stuff, most of what I will recommend to do a proper job is safe if you use some common sense. There will be solvents, so use them in a well ventilated area (a window cracked open does not cut it here). Also keep flames and sources of sparks away. Some of this stuff will require gloves (disposable latex work well) and safety glasses.

Step 1: Degrease
Get some mineral spirits or xylene from a hardware store. Wipe the steel with a dry rag, then with a rag with some solvent. This is to get all the oil/grease off. Depending on how oily this is, it may take several passes. Change the rag if nescessary, or else you will just smear the oil around. A non solvent way of doing this is using TriSodium Phosphate (TSP) and mixing it with water, take care to wash all the TSP off with water and wipe the steel dry to avoid rust.

After you finish the degreasing, sand the steel with fine sandpaper (325-400 grit), this will roughen up the surface and the paint will adhere (stick ) better.

Step 2: Rust conversion/phosphating
Any hardware stores will have a rust converter and they may go by many names including rust converter/neutralizer/disolver/ naval jelly... They are a mix of phosphoric and hydrochloric acids that will disolve rust chemically (sanding alone will not remove all the rust) and then phosphate the steel. The phosphate (like gun blue) will not only stop rust (to an extent as nothing will stop rust forever) but will give the paint better adhesion. Wear gloves/glasses and put something under the part to protect the floor. The converter should be gooey, and you apply it to the steel. Scrub badly rusted areas with a brillo pad or steel wool with the converter. Let stand 10-15 minutes and wash off with a hose. Dry the part well, including all cracks/grooves...right away or else the rust will come back and you will have to do it all over again. From this point forward only handle the part with gloves, as the oil in your skin will quickly start the steel rusting. You also have 24 hours to put on the first coat of primer, if you can't repeat the conversion step. All rust converters are a little different so RTFI (read the @#$%& instructions.)

Step 3: the Primer
Here is where you have a few decisons to make, and they will all affect how good a job you want, and like everything else better usually will cost more. You have 3 choices for primer:
Alkyd - Oil based primer for steel.
Epoxy - 2 part paint (mix part A and B together like the glue).
Rattle can - well if you did step 1 and 2, why bother with this.
You notice I did not include any water based paint, there is a reason, if you want performance, the do it yourselfer can forget about waterborne. Remember you don’t need good UV/weather resistance for the primer, since it will be covered with the topcoat.

Alkyd - get one designer for steel and rust prevention. It will cost a bit more but when you gash through the paint on that rock, the anti-corrosive pigments in there will greatly slow down the spread of the rust. Most major paint companies will have one (Benjamin Moore, Sherwin Williams, PPG, Rustoleum...).
Advantages: Good to excellent corrosion resistance depending on how it is made. Not too expensive. Good to very good adhesion to the steel. Fair to good solvent and chemical resistance. Good UV/Weather resistance.
Disadvantages: Poor to average mechanical resistance (scratch/chip) at first, but will eventually harden.

Epoxy - The standard when you want to protect steel, and is used on bridges, ships, towers and most importantly your Jeep... Get one designed as a steel primer, as this will be better than a general purpose one. One thing about epoxies (or any other 2 part paint) is once part A and B are mixed together, you have a limited time to use it (usually 2-8 hours depending on formulation and called pot life) afterwards it will be solid. The 2 parts chemically react together, and this is what causes the solidification. Clean everything well, because once they react and dry, you will never get it off (hey that’s why you are using it). So only mix how much you need.
Advantages: Very good to excellent corrosion resistance. Excellent adhesion. Excellent solvent and chemical resistance. Excellent mechanical resistance.
Disadvantages: Needs special strong solvents (stronger than an alkyd). Limited pot life. Poor UV/weather resistance. More expensive.

RattleCan – While called alkyd/rust paint… they are formulated for spraying and fast dry. This gives them convenience but you sacrifice performance. But if you don’t mind constantly spraying them, they work much better if you follow steps 1 and 2 first.


Almost all of you basic properties will come from the primer since it is what is attached to the steel. The topcoat is just there for looks and to protect the primer from UV/weather exposure. Think of it as the foundation of a house, no one sees it, but you are in trouble if it is substandard.

I recommend 2 coats of primer (follow the paints instructions for time between coats). A light sanding (325-400 grit) between coats will help the new coat of paint stick to the previous one.

Step 4: the Topcoat
Again this is mostly for appearance and to stop that nasty UV light from degrading the primer. I recommend 2 coats with light sanding (325-400 grit) before each coat.

Waterborne acrylic – Excellent UV resistance, poor scratch/mar resistance, easy to use, very poor corrosion resistance (the primer will provide this), fair adhesion to the paint below.

Alkyd topcoat – Good UV resistance, good to very good scratch/mar resistance, good corrosion resistance. There are some DTM (direct to metal) alkyds out there that are both primer and topcoat, so just use 2-3 coats of it instead of a separate primer and topcoat. Very good adhesion to the paint below.

Acrylic urethane – Also known as auto topcoat. Excellent UV resistance, very good to excellent scratch/mar resistance, 2 part paint like an epoxy (disadvantage and advantage), very good to excellent adhesion to the paint below.

Application: Most paints can be applied either by spray or brush. Spray will look better, but is more difficult and has holidays (little holes between the paint drops that can give rust a chance to start). Brush will prevent holidays but may leave brush marks. The sanding between coats will help hide these

SEVERAL THIN COATS WILL PERFORM BETTER THAN THICK COATS

Om both my bumper and trail skidz, I used 2 coats of epoxy and 2 coats of acrylic urethane topcoat and am very happy with the results.

Hope this helps, and if you need more info I can PM my phone number.

Edit: can't count, had 2 spet 3s

 

Thanks man, you are the ROF Patron Saint of Paint

 

what do you do if you already have a failing powdercoat job? sandblasting?

 

Sandblast, or sander. I have had good luck using an air disk sander or a belt sander. It just gets dusty. Because Powdercoat is chemically reacted during the curing process, most household paint strippers will not work. Heat guns usually won't work either.

 

Thanks man, you are the ROF Patron Saint of Paint

x2, Thanks

 

Well, I just ordered some bare steel Rokmen sliders

 

Woo Hoo!

Its Saturday morning.. and my sliders are “On FedEx vehicle for delivery”.

Another related question for ya Mike..

Where do I go to get all these supplies? Do I need an air compressor and spray gun?

 

I would go with the powder. You can touch up and they will look fine. Most of your touch up will be on the under side any way.